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>denying people access to events after you already took their money for admission to them What if you discover fraud or criminality after the ticket is sold bu

>denying people access to events after you already took their money for admission to them What if you discover fraud or criminality after the ticket is sold but before entry? Leave this lawyer tempest in a teapot aside for the moment, I'm talking unambiguous crime. >denying people access to events for what their co-workers did Say I'm known to be employed by the Lawyers for The Right to Throw Octopi at Hockey Players Coalition, but haven't yet thrown my first octopus. Why can you not act proactively to prevent nuisance? Employment at a particular organization is not protected status, like race or sexual orientation would be. Also, what constitutes an event? If there's a trade show or a product unveiling I don't want certain competitors to attend, why should I have to grant them access? Other than you being in rather narrowly specified groups, if I don't want your money, I should be allowed to refuse it.

josephcsible 4y ago
> What if you discover fraud or criminality after the ticket is sold but before entry? Leave this lawyer tempest in a teapot aside for the moment, I'm talking unambiguous crime. Do you mean crime related to the ticket purchase or event, e.g., stealing a credit card that you then use to buy the tickets with, or do you mean if you just happened to have committed an unrelated crime in the past?
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  Related to being in attendance at the event. The local KKK branch intending to smuggle tiki torches and presumably their charming incantations to the annual Diversity and Inclusion gala. (Presumably that would be criminal due to the contents of their slogans, though in America I'm not sure anything said or chanted qualifies as hate crime, like it would in my country). I mean, they purchased tickets, so let 'em in and let 'em have at it, no? Edit: Okay, I'll give a less ridiculous example, one that involves nuisance but not criminality. I come from Ukraine; Alex Ovechkin is a Putin fanboy who refuses to condemn the invasion and genocide of my erstwhile compatriots. If I form a group of people who attend hockey games to heckle and accuse Ovechkin of being a genocide supporter, can MSG kick out a new member of my organization after learning of their joining? They won't sell me a ticket, they know I cause trouble. But he just joined, bought a ticket, then their security team got the updated the Facebook group member list.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    If someone does something bad after buying the ticket, then banning them might indeed be okay (depending on the details, of course). My point is that once you hand over legitimately purchased tickets to people, you shouldn't be able to deny them entry because of anything that happened prior to the purchase.
    - kspacewalk2 4y ago
      >once you hand over legitimately purchased tickets to people, you shouldn't be able to deny them entry because of anything that happened prior to the purchase. Even if something happened prior to the purchase and I learn about it after the purchase? That seems oddly arbitrary.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        Flip the scenario around: you buy tickets to a sporting event. A few days later, shortly before the game, you learn that one of the players is a Putin fanboy and decide you don't want to support him. Can you make MSG take back your ticket and give you a refund?
        kspacewalk2 4y ago
        Maybe if I can successfully raise a stink on Twitter. Generally, no. Having thought of how this scenario works backwards, I discovered that I assumed the kicked out lawyers were issued a refund, but I have no evidence of it. If not, they ought to demand it.
        josephcsible 4y ago
        > Having thought of how this scenario works backwards, I discovered that I assumed the kicked out lawyers were issued a refund, but I have no evidence of it. If not, they ought to demand it. The point of my example is that even if the victims were issued a refund, what MSG did is still wrong. Buyers don't get to unilaterally unwind ticket sales. Why should MSG get to do so?

josephcsible 4y ago

> What if you discover fraud or criminality after the ticket is sold but before entry? Leave this lawyer tempest in a teapot aside for the moment, I'm talking unambiguous crime. Do you mean crime related to the ticket purchase or event, e.g., stealing a credit card that you then use to buy the tickets with, or do you mean if you just happened to have committed an unrelated crime in the past?

kspacewalk2 4y ago
Related to being in attendance at the event. The local KKK branch intending to smuggle tiki torches and presumably their charming incantations to the annual Diversity and Inclusion gala. (Presumably that would be criminal due to the contents of their slogans, though in America I'm not sure anything said or chanted qualifies as hate crime, like it would in my country). I mean, they purchased tickets, so let 'em in and let 'em have at it, no? Edit: Okay, I'll give a less ridiculous example, one that involves nuisance but not criminality. I come from Ukraine; Alex Ovechkin is a Putin fanboy who refuses to condemn the invasion and genocide of my erstwhile compatriots. If I form a group of people who attend hockey games to heckle and accuse Ovechkin of being a genocide supporter, can MSG kick out a new member of my organization after learning of their joining? They won't sell me a ticket, they know I cause trouble. But he just joined, bought a ticket, then their security team got the updated the Facebook group member list.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  If someone does something bad after buying the ticket, then banning them might indeed be okay (depending on the details, of course). My point is that once you hand over legitimately purchased tickets to people, you shouldn't be able to deny them entry because of anything that happened prior to the purchase.
  - kspacewalk2 4y ago
    >once you hand over legitimately purchased tickets to people, you shouldn't be able to deny them entry because of anything that happened prior to the purchase. Even if something happened prior to the purchase and I learn about it after the purchase? That seems oddly arbitrary.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Flip the scenario around: you buy tickets to a sporting event. A few days later, shortly before the game, you learn that one of the players is a Putin fanboy and decide you don't want to support him. Can you make MSG take back your ticket and give you a refund?
      - kspacewalk2 4y ago
        Maybe if I can successfully raise a stink on Twitter. Generally, no. Having thought of how this scenario works backwards, I discovered that I assumed the kicked out lawyers were issued a refund, but I have no evidence of it. If not, they ought to demand it.
        josephcsible 4y ago
        > Having thought of how this scenario works backwards, I discovered that I assumed the kicked out lawyers were issued a refund, but I have no evidence of it. If not, they ought to demand it. The point of my example is that even if the victims were issued a refund, what MSG did is still wrong. Buyers don't get to unilaterally unwind ticket sales. Why should MSG get to do so?