5 ms·

According to the OP, Hertz has found that EVs are "between 50-60% cheaper to maintain than gasoline-powered cars." That's a huge difference. It means that the

by cs702 4y ago

According to the OP, Hertz has found that EVs are "between 50-60% cheaper to maintain than gasoline-powered cars." That's a huge difference. It means that the cost of using an ICE vehicle over time is 2x greater. If the figure is anywhere near accurate, ICE vehicles are toast.

metadat 4y ago
Strange claim, because Hertz's fleets are comprised of new and almost brand new vehicles, which usually only require oil changes. Then they sell them off after accumulating 10,000-25,000 miles, before any real maintenance is required. 20,000 miles is what, 4-6 oil changes?
- belval 4y ago
  An explanation could be that people driving Hertz cars are not optimizing for car longevity which breaks more stuff earlier? Also 10,000-20,000 miles in pure city environment can still take a toll on the brakes which the EV would be more resistant too because of regenerative breaking.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Some employee has to take those cars to jiffy lube (or whatever oil change place is contracted with that Hertz location to provide fluid changes) to the tune of $20/hr. I can see that dominating costs. And on top of that the average EV probably has low(er) rolling resistance tires (to get a few more miles of range) which get replaced every 40k instead of whatever sticky tires the OEM slapped that only last 30k so you're doing that routine less too.
- bluedino 4y ago
  Probably closer to 3 if they are following the cars oil life monitoring system
- diamondo25 4y ago
  I think the main issue is how people drive these cars. If you have a lot of short trips, or overrevving, or just in general abusing it (because rental), is much more common on ICE cars compared to electric ones?
- toast0 4y ago
  > 20,000 miles is what, 4-6 oil changes? Most new cars have a 10,000 mile factory oil change interval. PHEVs usually go for 20,000. Rental cars sometimes have a hard service life, but I'd put that range at maybe 1-2 changes. Which isn't much at all. More likely there's a usage difference; if you're puttering around from the airport to the hotel and back, you might pick an EV, but if you're renting a car to drive a longer distance one-way trip, it's mostly going to be an ICE, and you're gonna put some miles on it at high speed, etc.
  - metadat 4y ago
    Thanks for the info, toast0. Minor clarification: Highway miles are actually gentler than city / town miles. Less wear and tear due to stop and go traffic, 90 degree turns, and fewer potholes.
    - toast0 4y ago
      They're generally gentler, but it kind of depends on the highway. The speeds also mean more consequences of any pothole or other obstruction, too. But mostly the observation is that you'll likely get a lot more miles on the car in such a rental than a local rental. So a rental company that keeps a car in their fleet for 2-years or 20,000 miles is going to likely send most EVs out for age and more ICEs for milage (in my estimation, anyway), and so sure, ICEs will have oil changes in that interval, but they'll also have more of the every car needs maintenance sort of proportional to use (runtime and/or mileage), because they'll see more use.
- fiftyfifty 4y ago
  Oil changes probably explains the difference. We have 70,000 miles on my wife's Tesla and it's never gone in for any maintenance. We've replaced the tires on it twice now (Tesla's do eat tires) and I've replaced the cabin air filter a couple of times and fill up the windshield washer fluid about once a year.
- ip26 4y ago
  Here’s an interesting question- do they need to sell off EV’s after only 25,000 miles? Does simple maintenance reduce the turnover rate & associated costs?
- pjc50 4y ago
  The article mentions failures. Presumably it's quite an expensive hassle if a customer's car fails and you have to provide them with another one on top of the cost of the actual repair. Interestingly JD Power claim that EVs have more problems https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/28/jd-power-evs-and-and-plug-in-hybrids-have-more-problems/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/28/jd-power-evs-and-and-plug-... .. but mostly in the infotainment system? Maybe that matters less to rental drivers. Maybe that depends on brand.
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  I would be curious to see absolute values on this rather than percentages. Not having to do oil changes could easily be a 50% decrease, but oil changes also really aren't that expensive overall on a few tens of thousands of miles, right?
- asciimov 4y ago
  Rental Companies are notorious for not doing scheduled maintenance on cars.
- oxfordmale 4y ago
  I wonder if the second hand price of EVs makes a difference. Until recently you could pretty much drive a Tesla for free for the first two years, as the second hand value hardly deprecated.
Majestic121 4y ago
While those numbers are extremely encouraging, the fact that this is on a new fleet is to be kept in mind. What we know now is that they 50-60% cheaper to maintain during the first couple of years. Let's hope that they are also 50-60% cheaper to maintain over their whole lifetime, but this might not be as assured as one might think due to batteries which are a huge cost.
- metadat 4y ago
  EV maintenance items should only involve tires, air filters, and wiper blades and fluid. My friends with Teslas have reported that these are the only things they've done in 50,000+ miles.
  - treeman79 4y ago
    So same as a gas car minus oil changes.
    - metadat 4y ago
      I'm not going to put the entire ICE maintenance list here, but there are a lot more wear items. Brakes, belts, coolant, oil, transmission service, annual emissions inspections. Radiator or other leaks.. pretty annoying. The maintenance schedule is definitely more involved. Edit: lostlogin, sure.. that's a, uhm, certain strategy. No doubt, Japanese cars can usually take an impressive amount of abuse. And yeah, a harsh way to treat a machine you rely on to keep you and your loved ones safe.
      - lostlogin 4y ago
        It can be, but our 2 corollas have had an oil change each in 10 years, one got a set of tyres and one needed brake pads and rotor skimming. It’s a terrible way to treat cars, but they go fine.
        DangitBobby 4y ago
lm28469 4y ago
> ICE vehicles are toast Let's wait, my dad traded his 20 years old car for a new model a few years ago, he paid 8k euros for a brand new ICE car, he does under 10k km per year now. The cheapest EV I can find is 22k euros here, and it's a piece of shit that barely does highway speed, which he could not afford anyways. Companies will make public charger more and more expensive until it reaches the price of filling a gas car, it's just matter of time, mechanics will do the same. In the meantime it's all tricks and snares, enjoy it while it lasts
- astura 4y ago
  What car is only €8k new? I don't think there's anything in that price range in the US market..
asciimov 4y ago
Those are short term ownership costs. Major Rental Companies often pull cars between 35k-50k miles, which they can pile on the car in 12 months. For most modern cars that is a couple of oil changes, but before the long term maintenance items crop up like tires, which on EVs are more expensive.

by cs702 4y ago

metadat 4y ago

Strange claim, because Hertz's fleets are comprised of new and almost brand new vehicles, which usually only require oil changes. Then they sell them off after accumulating 10,000-25,000 miles, before any real maintenance is required. 20,000 miles is what, 4-6 oil changes?

belval 4y ago
An explanation could be that people driving Hertz cars are not optimizing for car longevity which breaks more stuff earlier? Also 10,000-20,000 miles in pure city environment can still take a toll on the brakes which the EV would be more resistant too because of regenerative breaking.
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
Some employee has to take those cars to jiffy lube (or whatever oil change place is contracted with that Hertz location to provide fluid changes) to the tune of $20/hr. I can see that dominating costs. And on top of that the average EV probably has low(er) rolling resistance tires (to get a few more miles of range) which get replaced every 40k instead of whatever sticky tires the OEM slapped that only last 30k so you're doing that routine less too.
bluedino 4y ago
Probably closer to 3 if they are following the cars oil life monitoring system
diamondo25 4y ago
I think the main issue is how people drive these cars. If you have a lot of short trips, or overrevving, or just in general abusing it (because rental), is much more common on ICE cars compared to electric ones?
toast0 4y ago
> 20,000 miles is what, 4-6 oil changes? Most new cars have a 10,000 mile factory oil change interval. PHEVs usually go for 20,000. Rental cars sometimes have a hard service life, but I'd put that range at maybe 1-2 changes. Which isn't much at all. More likely there's a usage difference; if you're puttering around from the airport to the hotel and back, you might pick an EV, but if you're renting a car to drive a longer distance one-way trip, it's mostly going to be an ICE, and you're gonna put some miles on it at high speed, etc.
- metadat 4y ago
  Thanks for the info, toast0. Minor clarification: Highway miles are actually gentler than city / town miles. Less wear and tear due to stop and go traffic, 90 degree turns, and fewer potholes.
  - toast0 4y ago
    They're generally gentler, but it kind of depends on the highway. The speeds also mean more consequences of any pothole or other obstruction, too. But mostly the observation is that you'll likely get a lot more miles on the car in such a rental than a local rental. So a rental company that keeps a car in their fleet for 2-years or 20,000 miles is going to likely send most EVs out for age and more ICEs for milage (in my estimation, anyway), and so sure, ICEs will have oil changes in that interval, but they'll also have more of the every car needs maintenance sort of proportional to use (runtime and/or mileage), because they'll see more use.
fiftyfifty 4y ago
Oil changes probably explains the difference. We have 70,000 miles on my wife's Tesla and it's never gone in for any maintenance. We've replaced the tires on it twice now (Tesla's do eat tires) and I've replaced the cabin air filter a couple of times and fill up the windshield washer fluid about once a year.
ip26 4y ago
Here’s an interesting question- do they need to sell off EV’s after only 25,000 miles? Does simple maintenance reduce the turnover rate & associated costs?
pjc50 4y ago
The article mentions failures. Presumably it's quite an expensive hassle if a customer's car fails and you have to provide them with another one on top of the cost of the actual repair. Interestingly JD Power claim that EVs have more problems https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/28/jd-power-evs-and-and-plug-in-hybrids-have-more-problems/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/28/jd-power-evs-and-and-plug-... .. but mostly in the infotainment system? Maybe that matters less to rental drivers. Maybe that depends on brand.
CydeWeys 4y ago
I would be curious to see absolute values on this rather than percentages. Not having to do oil changes could easily be a 50% decrease, but oil changes also really aren't that expensive overall on a few tens of thousands of miles, right?
asciimov 4y ago
Rental Companies are notorious for not doing scheduled maintenance on cars.
oxfordmale 4y ago
I wonder if the second hand price of EVs makes a difference. Until recently you could pretty much drive a Tesla for free for the first two years, as the second hand value hardly deprecated.

Majestic121 4y ago

While those numbers are extremely encouraging, the fact that this is on a new fleet is to be kept in mind. What we know now is that they 50-60% cheaper to maintain during the first couple of years. Let's hope that they are also 50-60% cheaper to maintain over their whole lifetime, but this might not be as assured as one might think due to batteries which are a huge cost.

metadat 4y ago
EV maintenance items should only involve tires, air filters, and wiper blades and fluid. My friends with Teslas have reported that these are the only things they've done in 50,000+ miles.
- treeman79 4y ago
  So same as a gas car minus oil changes.
  - metadat 4y ago
    I'm not going to put the entire ICE maintenance list here, but there are a lot more wear items. Brakes, belts, coolant, oil, transmission service, annual emissions inspections. Radiator or other leaks.. pretty annoying. The maintenance schedule is definitely more involved. Edit: lostlogin, sure.. that's a, uhm, certain strategy. No doubt, Japanese cars can usually take an impressive amount of abuse. And yeah, a harsh way to treat a machine you rely on to keep you and your loved ones safe.
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      It can be, but our 2 corollas have had an oil change each in 10 years, one got a set of tyres and one needed brake pads and rotor skimming. It’s a terrible way to treat cars, but they go fine.
      - DangitBobby 4y ago

lm28469 4y ago

> ICE vehicles are toast Let's wait, my dad traded his 20 years old car for a new model a few years ago, he paid 8k euros for a brand new ICE car, he does under 10k km per year now. The cheapest EV I can find is 22k euros here, and it's a piece of shit that barely does highway speed, which he could not afford anyways. Companies will make public charger more and more expensive until it reaches the price of filling a gas car, it's just matter of time, mechanics will do the same. In the meantime it's all tricks and snares, enjoy it while it lasts

astura 4y ago
What car is only €8k new? I don't think there's anything in that price range in the US market..

asciimov 4y ago

Those are short term ownership costs. Major Rental Companies often pull cars between 35k-50k miles, which they can pile on the car in 12 months. For most modern cars that is a couple of oil changes, but before the long term maintenance items crop up like tires, which on EVs are more expensive.