3 ms·

I'm skeptical of any such top-down hierarchy surviving for generations, especially if it isn't willing to be open to some form of self-governance necessary for

I'm skeptical of any such top-down hierarchy surviving for generations, especially if it isn't willing to be open to some form of self-governance necessary for political stability. If things eventually do escalate to interplanetary warfare, Mars has the significant advantage of having a much shallower gravity well. It's much cheaper for them to send missiles to Earth than vice versa, so perhaps the MAD threat will be enough to keep them safe.

lapcat 4y ago
> I'm skeptical of any such top-down hierarchy surviving for generations Have you seen [gestures broadly] the world? People are people regardless of where you put them. There's no reason to believe that Mars will magically become a political paradise, simply because it's a long distance away from here. > Mars has the significant advantage of having a much shallower gravity well. But vastly fewer people, vastly smaller manufacturing base, and vastly more difficult living conditions.
- fleventynine 4y ago
  > There's no reason to believe that Mars will magically become a political paradise, simply because it's a long distance away from here. Obviously it won't be a paradise. But the natural environment will select for hard-working individuals with grit, determination, and community spirit.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > the natural environment will select for What do you mean by this? Natural selection AKA "survival of the fittest" only works over the course of thousands or millions of years. Otherwise, Mars would be pretty much stuck with whatever people it (hypothetically) had. Especially if you're talking about a colony that decides to make itself independent of Earth. On Earth, we can be selective of who we would (hypothetically) send to Mars. But wouldn't we select loyalists to ourselves? Unless... we make Mars a penal colony. ;-) Also, "community spirit" can mean obedience to the strict existing hierarchy, for the preservation of the community.
    - fleventynine 4y ago
      > the natural environment will select...What do you mean by this? The initial group of settlers will self-select themselves; not many of us are willing to live in such harsh conditions. Kids that grow up in this environment are likely to develop grit and cooperative spirit, and they will see first-hand how it is necessary just to survive.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > Kids that grow up in this environment are likely to develop grit and cooperative spirit Alternatively, they may grow up dispirited and disillusioned, because they had no choice in the matter. Maybe they'll want to leave Mars and go to Earth. Or maybe they'll just be pissed off and lazy, wanting to watch the world burn, so to speak. If you want to keep the kids in line, you'd better have a totalitarian government that restricts their access to information, to prevent them from discovering that life on Earth is so much better than their own miserable lives. "Mommy, I want to go outside and play!" "Sorry honey, but outside will kill you. Now eat your manufactured nutrient packs and drink your recycled urine."

lapcat 4y ago

> I'm skeptical of any such top-down hierarchy surviving for generations Have you seen [gestures broadly] the world? People are people regardless of where you put them. There's no reason to believe that Mars will magically become a political paradise, simply because it's a long distance away from here. > Mars has the significant advantage of having a much shallower gravity well. But vastly fewer people, vastly smaller manufacturing base, and vastly more difficult living conditions.

fleventynine 4y ago
> There's no reason to believe that Mars will magically become a political paradise, simply because it's a long distance away from here. Obviously it won't be a paradise. But the natural environment will select for hard-working individuals with grit, determination, and community spirit.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > the natural environment will select for What do you mean by this? Natural selection AKA "survival of the fittest" only works over the course of thousands or millions of years. Otherwise, Mars would be pretty much stuck with whatever people it (hypothetically) had. Especially if you're talking about a colony that decides to make itself independent of Earth. On Earth, we can be selective of who we would (hypothetically) send to Mars. But wouldn't we select loyalists to ourselves? Unless... we make Mars a penal colony. ;-) Also, "community spirit" can mean obedience to the strict existing hierarchy, for the preservation of the community.
  - fleventynine 4y ago
    > the natural environment will select...What do you mean by this? The initial group of settlers will self-select themselves; not many of us are willing to live in such harsh conditions. Kids that grow up in this environment are likely to develop grit and cooperative spirit, and they will see first-hand how it is necessary just to survive.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > Kids that grow up in this environment are likely to develop grit and cooperative spirit Alternatively, they may grow up dispirited and disillusioned, because they had no choice in the matter. Maybe they'll want to leave Mars and go to Earth. Or maybe they'll just be pissed off and lazy, wanting to watch the world burn, so to speak. If you want to keep the kids in line, you'd better have a totalitarian government that restricts their access to information, to prevent them from discovering that life on Earth is so much better than their own miserable lives. "Mommy, I want to go outside and play!" "Sorry honey, but outside will kill you. Now eat your manufactured nutrient packs and drink your recycled urine."