4 ms·

Nobody needs to smoke. Everybody needs to eat. Abstinence is easier than moderation.

joenot443 4y ago
That's a very fair point. It's definitely not a 1:1 comparison between smoking and obesity.
eru 4y ago
Well, nicotine is actually a pretty good ADHD treatment option. That's part of the reason why we see more (adult) ADHD these days: people used to smoke a lot. (Chain smoking plus guzzling black coffee used to be the stereotype for eg journalists or editors.) So nobody strictly _needs_ to smoke, but it helps some. (Before you go and light one up: smoking is one of the worst ways to get nicotine. Use a patch or lozenge or vape instead.)
- maeil 4y ago
  Wikipedia says > The nicotine causes the receptors to release nitric oxide, which slows sensory inhibition causing a suppression of a subsequent stimuli It seems unlikely that nicotine is the only discovered substance that causes this effect, meaning there should be a healthier method?
  - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
    Yes, it's called amphetamine. There is an alternative to being fat too, it's called broccoli. The point isn't that there are no alternatives, just that choosing to smoke is just as morally justifiable as choosing to be fat. Whether that means you should judge both categories of people, or neither, is up to you, but there can be good reasons why people are in either category. Things are rarely so black and white in the real world.
    - ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
      > There is an alternative to being fat too, it's called broccoli There's a lot of discussion on obesity and weight issues on hackernews that show zero shreds of empathy that it's just wild to me and this is not much different. I don't think anyone refutes that diet and exercise are great options to avoid/combat obesity, but statements like yours are as useful as walking up to a smoker and saying "just quit". You may be alienating the audience you are trying to help, given that is the intention
      - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
        Congratulations on understanding my point!
    - eru 4y ago
      > Yes, it's called amphetamine. Just about any stimulant will work. Eg adrenaline/epinephrine works fairly well. Your body produces that itself, especially when exercising or fidgeting. (And now you know one reason why ADHD people often fidget.) Methylphenidate works, too. It's also known as Ritalin.
  - caeril 4y ago
    > meaning there should be a healthier method Nicotine is a generally safe substance, as long as it's not delivered alongside acrylamide, VOC-carrying particulates, and tar, as it is in cigarettes. Amazon sells the stuff in lozenge form for only 7 cents per mg.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- anders_p 4y ago
  Oh, I had no idea about the ADHD/nicotine connection. As a recently diagnosed & medicated ADHD person, who used to chain smoke and drink gallons of coffee daily, so much makes sense all of a sudden. Thank you for making me aware of this!
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    FYI: Consumption of caffeine increases tolerance for nicotine. Drinking coffee and smoking will tend to lead to more smoking. Not to dismiss the ADHD connection at all, but I would be hesitant to hang too much of the blame on that given the coffee drinking.
  - eru 4y ago
    See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine for more.
bakuninsbart 4y ago
The choice of food is in fact a choice, and moderation isn't really required if your main ingredient in a dish is egg plant. It might not be an exact match, but the similarities between nicotine addiction and food addiction are more numerous than the differences.
- eru 4y ago
  Just to be precise: nicotine by itself isn't really addictive. It's the whole cocktail of chemicals in cigarette smoke.

That's a very fair point. It's definitely not a 1:1 comparison between smoking and obesity.

eru 4y ago

Well, nicotine is actually a pretty good ADHD treatment option. That's part of the reason why we see more (adult) ADHD these days: people used to smoke a lot. (Chain smoking plus guzzling black coffee used to be the stereotype for eg journalists or editors.) So nobody strictly _needs_ to smoke, but it helps some. (Before you go and light one up: smoking is one of the worst ways to get nicotine. Use a patch or lozenge or vape instead.)

maeil 4y ago
Wikipedia says > The nicotine causes the receptors to release nitric oxide, which slows sensory inhibition causing a suppression of a subsequent stimuli It seems unlikely that nicotine is the only discovered substance that causes this effect, meaning there should be a healthier method?
- AngriestLettuce 4y ago
  Yes, it's called amphetamine. There is an alternative to being fat too, it's called broccoli. The point isn't that there are no alternatives, just that choosing to smoke is just as morally justifiable as choosing to be fat. Whether that means you should judge both categories of people, or neither, is up to you, but there can be good reasons why people are in either category. Things are rarely so black and white in the real world.
  - ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
    > There is an alternative to being fat too, it's called broccoli There's a lot of discussion on obesity and weight issues on hackernews that show zero shreds of empathy that it's just wild to me and this is not much different. I don't think anyone refutes that diet and exercise are great options to avoid/combat obesity, but statements like yours are as useful as walking up to a smoker and saying "just quit". You may be alienating the audience you are trying to help, given that is the intention
    - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
      Congratulations on understanding my point!
  - eru 4y ago
    > Yes, it's called amphetamine. Just about any stimulant will work. Eg adrenaline/epinephrine works fairly well. Your body produces that itself, especially when exercising or fidgeting. (And now you know one reason why ADHD people often fidget.) Methylphenidate works, too. It's also known as Ritalin.
- caeril 4y ago
  > meaning there should be a healthier method Nicotine is a generally safe substance, as long as it's not delivered alongside acrylamide, VOC-carrying particulates, and tar, as it is in cigarettes. Amazon sells the stuff in lozenge form for only 7 cents per mg.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
anders_p 4y ago
Oh, I had no idea about the ADHD/nicotine connection. As a recently diagnosed & medicated ADHD person, who used to chain smoke and drink gallons of coffee daily, so much makes sense all of a sudden. Thank you for making me aware of this!
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  FYI: Consumption of caffeine increases tolerance for nicotine. Drinking coffee and smoking will tend to lead to more smoking. Not to dismiss the ADHD connection at all, but I would be hesitant to hang too much of the blame on that given the coffee drinking.
- eru 4y ago
  See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine for more.

bakuninsbart 4y ago

The choice of food is in fact a choice, and moderation isn't really required if your main ingredient in a dish is egg plant. It might not be an exact match, but the similarities between nicotine addiction and food addiction are more numerous than the differences.

eru 4y ago
Just to be precise: nicotine by itself isn't really addictive. It's the whole cocktail of chemicals in cigarette smoke.