6 ms·

These stories remind me of a story from Discover Magazine https://www.discovermagazine.com/technology/evolving-a-conscious-machine https://www.discovermagazine.

These stories remind me of a story from Discover Magazine https://www.discovermagazine.com/technology/evolving-a-conscious-machine https://www.discovermagazine.com/technology/evolving-a-consc... A researcher was using a process to "evolve" a FPGA and the result was a circuit that was super efficient but worked in ways that were unexpected: part of the circuit seemed unconnected to the rest but if removed the whole thing stopped working and it would only work at a specific temperature.

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
Ah, the good old radio component you can program into fpgas.
- pjc50 4y ago
  Very easy to design a radio component into electronics, much harder to design it out.
  - nkrisc 4y ago
    I’ve had all kinds of cheap electronics that came with unadvertised radio features for free.
    - TeMPOraL 4y ago
      It's sad that those pesky regulators from the FCC make it so hard to get devices with unintended radio functionality these days!
      - gumby 4y ago
        I know, if people really cared about devices rejecting interference the free market would sort that out, amirite?
        WalterBright 4y ago
        The free market doesn't allow you to pour sewage onto your neighbor's property, either. Think "property rights" are required for a free market.
        gumby 4y ago
        OMG you mean the libertarians are mistaken? Sacré bleu!
        WalterBright 4y ago
        I don't know what you heard, but you're mistaken about what free markets are.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      My fillings tune in Radio Moscow. Keeps me awake at night.
  - nomel 4y ago
    I mistakenly made a two AM radios in my electronics classes, from trying to make an amplifier and a PLL. The FM radio was mistakenly made while trying to make an AM radio. :-|
the8472 4y ago
Primary source (or at least one of several published versions): https://cse-robotics.engr.tamu.edu/dshell/cs625/Thompson96Evolved.pdf https://cse-robotics.engr.tamu.edu/dshell/cs625/Thompson96Ev...
gooseyard 4y ago
oh weird, I first heard about a story like this in https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/ https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/, I think perhaps they're both about the same lab.
- jccalhoun 4y ago
  Same guy: Adrian Thompson
kordlessagain 4y ago
Yeah, IIRC it grew an antenna that was utilizing the clock in the computer it was sitting next to.
- blurker 4y ago
  You're referring to [this](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3949367_The_evolved_radio_and_its_implications_for_modelling_the_evolutionof_novel_sensors https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3949367_The_evolved...) Which was also really cool! > As with Thompson's FPGA exploiting some subtle physical properties of the device, Layzell found that evolved circuits could rely on external factors. For example, whilst trying to evolve an oscillator Bird and Layzell discovered that evolution was using part of the circuit for a radio antenna, and picking up emissions from the environment [18]. Layzell also found that evolved circuits were sensitive to whether or not a soldering iron was plugged in (not even switched on) in another part of the room[19]. ... However, OP was actually referring to an experiment by Dr Adrian Thompson which was different but also sort of similar. The FPGA evolved by Thompson ended up depending on parts of the circuit that were disconnected from the main circuit but still affected its operation. It probably relied on electromagnetic properties, so was sort of a radio, but it did not rely on the clock of a nearby computer. [damninteresting.com did a really interesting writeup about this](https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/ https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/) Both were really cool, unexpected behaviors of evolved hardware systems.
  - kordlessagain 4y ago
    That's right! Thanks for tracking it down...
weakfortress 4y ago
It's interesting to see these unconventional solutions. Genetic algorithms evolving antenna design produce similar illogical but very efficient designs. Humans have a draw to aesthetic. Robots don't have such limitations.
teaearlgraycold 4y ago
Overfitting IRL
davesque 4y ago
I can't believe someone dropped a link to this story. I remember reading this and feeling like it broadened my sense of what evolutionary processes can produce.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Reading that article made me start playing with evolutionary algorithms and start to think they were the future, as opposed to neural nets. Oops!
alltheworlds 4y ago
I believe I remember reading about that in the book "The Emperor's New Mind" by Roger Penrose back in the late 90s. It was something that has stuck with me ever since, even though I didn't follow up on the AI route.

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

Ah, the good old radio component you can program into fpgas.

pjc50 4y ago
Very easy to design a radio component into electronics, much harder to design it out.
- nkrisc 4y ago
  I’ve had all kinds of cheap electronics that came with unadvertised radio features for free.
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    It's sad that those pesky regulators from the FCC make it so hard to get devices with unintended radio functionality these days!
    - gumby 4y ago
      I know, if people really cared about devices rejecting interference the free market would sort that out, amirite?
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        The free market doesn't allow you to pour sewage onto your neighbor's property, either. Think "property rights" are required for a free market.
        gumby 4y ago
        OMG you mean the libertarians are mistaken? Sacré bleu!
        WalterBright 4y ago
        I don't know what you heard, but you're mistaken about what free markets are.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    My fillings tune in Radio Moscow. Keeps me awake at night.
- nomel 4y ago
  I mistakenly made a two AM radios in my electronics classes, from trying to make an amplifier and a PLL. The FM radio was mistakenly made while trying to make an AM radio. :-|

the8472 4y ago

Primary source (or at least one of several published versions): https://cse-robotics.engr.tamu.edu/dshell/cs625/Thompson96Evolved.pdf https://cse-robotics.engr.tamu.edu/dshell/cs625/Thompson96Ev...

gooseyard 4y ago

oh weird, I first heard about a story like this in https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/ https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/, I think perhaps they're both about the same lab.

jccalhoun 4y ago
Same guy: Adrian Thompson

kordlessagain 4y ago

Yeah, IIRC it grew an antenna that was utilizing the clock in the computer it was sitting next to.

blurker 4y ago
You're referring to [this](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3949367_The_evolved_radio_and_its_implications_for_modelling_the_evolutionof_novel_sensors https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3949367_The_evolved...) Which was also really cool! > As with Thompson's FPGA exploiting some subtle physical properties of the device, Layzell found that evolved circuits could rely on external factors. For example, whilst trying to evolve an oscillator Bird and Layzell discovered that evolution was using part of the circuit for a radio antenna, and picking up emissions from the environment [18]. Layzell also found that evolved circuits were sensitive to whether or not a soldering iron was plugged in (not even switched on) in another part of the room[19]. ... However, OP was actually referring to an experiment by Dr Adrian Thompson which was different but also sort of similar. The FPGA evolved by Thompson ended up depending on parts of the circuit that were disconnected from the main circuit but still affected its operation. It probably relied on electromagnetic properties, so was sort of a radio, but it did not rely on the clock of a nearby computer. [damninteresting.com did a really interesting writeup about this](https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/ https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/) Both were really cool, unexpected behaviors of evolved hardware systems.
- kordlessagain 4y ago
  That's right! Thanks for tracking it down...

weakfortress 4y ago

It's interesting to see these unconventional solutions. Genetic algorithms evolving antenna design produce similar illogical but very efficient designs. Humans have a draw to aesthetic. Robots don't have such limitations.

teaearlgraycold 4y ago

Overfitting IRL

davesque 4y ago

I can't believe someone dropped a link to this story. I remember reading this and feeling like it broadened my sense of what evolutionary processes can produce.

googlryas 4y ago
Reading that article made me start playing with evolutionary algorithms and start to think they were the future, as opposed to neural nets. Oops!

alltheworlds 4y ago

I believe I remember reading about that in the book "The Emperor's New Mind" by Roger Penrose back in the late 90s. It was something that has stuck with me ever since, even though I didn't follow up on the AI route.