4 ms·

Fewer than 1 in 1000, mostly elderly, on a planet of almost 8 billion. Obviously not good, but it's not apocalyptic either. (Not bad enough to justify writing

Fewer than 1 in 1000, mostly elderly, on a planet of almost 8 billion. Obviously not good, but it's not apocalyptic either. (Not bad enough to justify writing off 'freedom' as an awful selfish far-right concept that should be purged from society entirely?)

onion2k 4y ago
Obviously not good, but it's not apocalyptic either. That's the death count with the measures put in place. If C-19 hadn't been taken as seriously as it was then you might be adding a zero to that death count. Maybe two.
- iso1631 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bigbillheck 4y ago
    > However unlike in 1920 the majority were not economically active. I really hope this is the most ghoulish thing I read all week, because I don't want to imagine the alternative.
  - onion2k 4y ago
    This is a fascinating thought experiment - how well do you think people would cope if their government just decided that half of everyone over 60 dying is an acceptable loss? What would the fallout from the collective trauma be? How disastrous would the impact on the sudden collapse of most pension funds as most of the capital is withdrawn be? As someone who's interested in systems thinking and the impact of feedback loops in large scale systems, I can't even begin to fathom how badly society would be damaged if this had actually happened.
  - eropple 4y ago
    This is actively ghastly chin-stroking under the guise of intellectualism and should have no place here.
pjc50 4y ago
9/11 killed fewer than 1 in one million of the world population and look at the response to that. Including impacts to freedom. Maybe that was the event that completely broke everybody's sense of proportion. 100ml liquid bottle? Can't take it on a plane. Airborne pathogen? Sure, why not, bring it aboard.
- wuiheerfoj 4y ago
  Politicians felt they had to (or seized the opportunity to?) enact a disproportionate response to 9/11 because it’s (politically ) better to fail by going too far than not going far enough. I suspect the same is true of covid, but how do we break the cycle? Is it innate in politics?
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    Same way we break any cycle. We vilify those who peddle it and shun those who support them.
saiya-jin 4y ago
Which freedoms are you missing currently? This obviously depends on location, but apart from few closed venues (which was good decision during height of pandemic) and few months of limited cross border travel (choice of every state) no freedoms were curtailed here in Switzerland, and absolutely 0 are curtailed now. Same applies for whole EU AFAIK. Unless you mean obvious a-holes that back then refused to put on masks in shops and public transport and made it a political issue, which it was not, simply a security one. It was wonderful to see all those slightly weird quiet types suddenly go full blown nuts and dive head first into various redneck conspiracy theories, if they weren't drowning in them before. Reasonable mankind lost those for good probably, but they were never truly part of it so at least now we see situation more clearly and can manage expectations more realistically.
- iso1631 4y ago
  Switzerland closed schools, hardly "a few" venues, it was pretty much every venue. They banned gatherings of more htan 5 people, unless it was financially beneficial (say people building something for money)
andrepd 4y ago
>Not bad enough to justify writing off 'freedom' as an awful selfish far-right concept that should be purged from society entirely Why the ridiculous straw man?

onion2k 4y ago

Obviously not good, but it's not apocalyptic either. That's the death count with the measures put in place. If C-19 hadn't been taken as seriously as it was then you might be adding a zero to that death count. Maybe two.

iso1631 4y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bigbillheck 4y ago
  > However unlike in 1920 the majority were not economically active. I really hope this is the most ghoulish thing I read all week, because I don't want to imagine the alternative.
- onion2k 4y ago
  This is a fascinating thought experiment - how well do you think people would cope if their government just decided that half of everyone over 60 dying is an acceptable loss? What would the fallout from the collective trauma be? How disastrous would the impact on the sudden collapse of most pension funds as most of the capital is withdrawn be? As someone who's interested in systems thinking and the impact of feedback loops in large scale systems, I can't even begin to fathom how badly society would be damaged if this had actually happened.
- eropple 4y ago
  This is actively ghastly chin-stroking under the guise of intellectualism and should have no place here.

pjc50 4y ago

9/11 killed fewer than 1 in one million of the world population and look at the response to that. Including impacts to freedom. Maybe that was the event that completely broke everybody's sense of proportion. 100ml liquid bottle? Can't take it on a plane. Airborne pathogen? Sure, why not, bring it aboard.

wuiheerfoj 4y ago
Politicians felt they had to (or seized the opportunity to?) enact a disproportionate response to 9/11 because it’s (politically ) better to fail by going too far than not going far enough. I suspect the same is true of covid, but how do we break the cycle? Is it innate in politics?
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Same way we break any cycle. We vilify those who peddle it and shun those who support them.

saiya-jin 4y ago

Which freedoms are you missing currently? This obviously depends on location, but apart from few closed venues (which was good decision during height of pandemic) and few months of limited cross border travel (choice of every state) no freedoms were curtailed here in Switzerland, and absolutely 0 are curtailed now. Same applies for whole EU AFAIK. Unless you mean obvious a-holes that back then refused to put on masks in shops and public transport and made it a political issue, which it was not, simply a security one. It was wonderful to see all those slightly weird quiet types suddenly go full blown nuts and dive head first into various redneck conspiracy theories, if they weren't drowning in them before. Reasonable mankind lost those for good probably, but they were never truly part of it so at least now we see situation more clearly and can manage expectations more realistically.

iso1631 4y ago
Switzerland closed schools, hardly "a few" venues, it was pretty much every venue. They banned gatherings of more htan 5 people, unless it was financially beneficial (say people building something for money)

andrepd 4y ago

>Not bad enough to justify writing off 'freedom' as an awful selfish far-right concept that should be purged from society entirely Why the ridiculous straw man?