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We’re not ignoring 30 years of improvements, they’re just irrelevant because the statistics show that they are. Sure write some more planned improvements, doub

by raggi 4y ago

We’re not ignoring 30 years of improvements, they’re just irrelevant because the statistics show that they are. Sure write some more planned improvements, double down, that’s fine, but if you’re presented with the kind of history and data we’re looking at, would you bet on them? The performance topic is hyperbole. We’re not talking about bounds checking - that topic is irrelevant and has well understood solutions in written systems. There are swaths of code now demonstrating direct competition in large practical systems and small benchmarks. Lots. The performance argument is so unsubstantiated it’s almost dishonest. There’s an implication buried in here that there is some set of problems that only c++ can solve. I’d like to see those written down in a focused manner, just the problem and it’s c++ solution. We can take it from there to see if the problems are truly unsolvable with any other tool.

zozbot234 4y ago
> There’s an implication buried in here that there is some set of problems that only c++ can solve. Not sure about that. But the c/c++ community is still larger than, e.g. rust hence some worthwhile innovations (most recently e.g. co-routines, also executor interfaces for accelerated compute) show up first in c/c++. Then hopefully the rust folks figure out how to expose them to developers in a safe way.
- raggi 4y ago
  what is new about coroutines or executor interfaces?
- Yoric 4y ago
  For context, both C, C++ and Rust have had experimental implementations coroutines for ages. They're not standardized in C and Rust. And in C++, the only feedback I've seen is https://probablydance.com/2021/10/31/c-coroutines-do-not-spark-joy/ https://probablydance.com/2021/10/31/c-coroutines-do-not-spa..., which didn't look very good.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Other languages have already figured that out. C++ currently still needs to figure out its executor's story, as so far it also needs to depend on third party implementations. I can attest that C++/WinRT story is quite painful, unless one is really deep down into co-routines and how they might interact with various COM/WinRT process models. See The Old New Thing blog about them.

by raggi 4y ago

zozbot234 4y ago

> There’s an implication buried in here that there is some set of problems that only c++ can solve. Not sure about that. But the c/c++ community is still larger than, e.g. rust hence some worthwhile innovations (most recently e.g. co-routines, also executor interfaces for accelerated compute) show up first in c/c++. Then hopefully the rust folks figure out how to expose them to developers in a safe way.

raggi 4y ago
what is new about coroutines or executor interfaces?
Yoric 4y ago
For context, both C, C++ and Rust have had experimental implementations coroutines for ages. They're not standardized in C and Rust. And in C++, the only feedback I've seen is https://probablydance.com/2021/10/31/c-coroutines-do-not-spark-joy/ https://probablydance.com/2021/10/31/c-coroutines-do-not-spa..., which didn't look very good.
pjmlp 4y ago
Other languages have already figured that out. C++ currently still needs to figure out its executor's story, as so far it also needs to depend on third party implementations. I can attest that C++/WinRT story is quite painful, unless one is really deep down into co-routines and how they might interact with various COM/WinRT process models. See The Old New Thing blog about them.