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"So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." I love that quote. Shows a common problem: devs, archi

"So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." I love that quote. Shows a common problem: devs, architects and managers designing platforms but never asking users how they want to use it. At least the end results indicate that. Edit: a link with actual text of the email, not screenshots divided in Tweets.. https://web.archive.org/web/20210616012008/https://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2008/06/24/full-text-an-epic-bill-gates-e-mail-rant/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210616012008/https://blog.seat...

darkwater 4y ago
Then, when someone dares to talk about "personas" or designing UIs to have actual users in mind, developers will rage that it's just bullshit, people playing with crayons instead of doing real work etc etc
- pedro2 4y ago
  I really doubt the issue is devs. If they don't want to tank their velocity they have to open an issue to fix such problems, which will stay open and never looked at.
- the_other 4y ago
  I'm a dev. I have asked my product and design colleagues to use personas at my last two roles... and they don't. If I had more traction, I'd get the ads and marketing teams involved too so the models in the ads matched the personas we were designing around. hashtag not all devs hashtag n=1
  - darkwater 4y ago
    Obviously it's not all devs, but there is a kind of dev that is exactly like that. Look at the comments on the KDE article [1] that was on the frontpage yesterday. Yes, Linux power-users are for sure a skewed and biased subset of devs BUT they do exist. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34390655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34390655
viraptor 4y ago
Not much has changed since then. I just checked if MS has a download page. They do and it's https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/default.aspx https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/default.aspx It's 1/3 surface ad, 1/3 category selection, 1/3 office 365 ad. The categories have a :hover effect, but you can't click the icon - only the text. What are the top downloads offered? 01 Microsoft Office for Mac 2011 14.7.7 Update 02 Office Deployment Tool 03 Update for Microsoft Office 2016 (KB5002138) 64-Bit Edition 04 Update for Microsoft Office 2016 (KB4484211) 64-Bit Edition 05 Update for Microsoft Office 2016 (KB5002160) 64-Bit Edition Given that the updates are close to enforced in the new versions, WTF is that page? The downloading part of that email applies just as well today as it did then.
- kkarpkkarp 4y ago
  And "Top download categories > Browsers" redirects you to IE download page which informs it is retired and you should go to Edge download page (which does not have anything to download, just a slideshow about Edge) :)
basch 4y ago
His tone, and that line, were very inspirational to me when I wrote this comment 6 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14160809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14160809

darkwater 4y ago

Then, when someone dares to talk about "personas" or designing UIs to have actual users in mind, developers will rage that it's just bullshit, people playing with crayons instead of doing real work etc etc

pedro2 4y ago
I really doubt the issue is devs. If they don't want to tank their velocity they have to open an issue to fix such problems, which will stay open and never looked at.
the_other 4y ago
I'm a dev. I have asked my product and design colleagues to use personas at my last two roles... and they don't. If I had more traction, I'd get the ads and marketing teams involved too so the models in the ads matched the personas we were designing around. hashtag not all devs hashtag n=1
- darkwater 4y ago
  Obviously it's not all devs, but there is a kind of dev that is exactly like that. Look at the comments on the KDE article [1] that was on the frontpage yesterday. Yes, Linux power-users are for sure a skewed and biased subset of devs BUT they do exist. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34390655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34390655

viraptor 4y ago

Not much has changed since then. I just checked if MS has a download page. They do and it's https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/default.aspx https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/default.aspx It's 1/3 surface ad, 1/3 category selection, 1/3 office 365 ad. The categories have a :hover effect, but you can't click the icon - only the text. What are the top downloads offered? 01 Microsoft Office for Mac 2011 14.7.7 Update 02 Office Deployment Tool 03 Update for Microsoft Office 2016 (KB5002138) 64-Bit Edition 04 Update for Microsoft Office 2016 (KB4484211) 64-Bit Edition 05 Update for Microsoft Office 2016 (KB5002160) 64-Bit Edition Given that the updates are close to enforced in the new versions, WTF is that page? The downloading part of that email applies just as well today as it did then.

kkarpkkarp 4y ago
And "Top download categories > Browsers" redirects you to IE download page which informs it is retired and you should go to Edge download page (which does not have anything to download, just a slideshow about Edge) :)

basch 4y ago

His tone, and that line, were very inspirational to me when I wrote this comment 6 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14160809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14160809