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To add to this, CUDA doesn't run on mobile. That alone will force an (open, hopefuly) competitor to surface.

by Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago

saurik 4y ago
You really think Apple is going to implement an "open" anything?
- coldtea 4y ago
  You mean aside from their long history of developing open things, from Webkit (based on the KDE's open basic wkhtml and made into a full-blown browser engine) to Swift?
- Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
  I don't think Apple is the only mobile vendor. I think that between AMD, Intel, Qualcomm, Mediatek, Samsung and Google, they will realize that they are all being screwed over by Nvidia. Right now ML is still mostly research but when real products start surfacing (or, perhaps, for real products to surface to begin with) they will have to settle on something, wether it's ROCM, OneAPI or something else.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    So far they have been screwed by Google, as they also don't have OpenCL anything on Android, and Vulkan compute is something for hardcore NDK users.
pjmlp 4y ago
Nor does anything Khronos related for compute APIs. While Apple initially promoted OpenCL, Android never supported it as official API rather Renderscript. So on iOS eventually Apple moved into Metal, usable from Objective-C and Swift, while on Android, Google has deprecated Renderscript usable from Java and Kotlin, pushing everyone to now learn Vulkan compute and do the integration on the NDK by themselves while learning C, C++ and GLSL on the process (as no big deal from their POV). Basically hardly anyone cares with such great usability story. /s
- camel-cdr 4y ago
  > Nor does anything Khronos related for compute APIs As you said below, vulkan compute does work on mobile devices, and while not from Khronos (other than SYCL) there are a bunch of higher level libraries using it.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    I haven't said that.
fxtentacle 4y ago
Yeah, TensorFlow. It's excellent for deployment on arbitrary platforms because it has an OpenGL back-end.

To add to this, CUDA doesn't run on mobile. That alone will force an (open, hopefuly) competitor to surface.

saurik 4y ago

You really think Apple is going to implement an "open" anything?

coldtea 4y ago
You mean aside from their long history of developing open things, from Webkit (based on the KDE's open basic wkhtml and made into a full-blown browser engine) to Swift?
Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
I don't think Apple is the only mobile vendor. I think that between AMD, Intel, Qualcomm, Mediatek, Samsung and Google, they will realize that they are all being screwed over by Nvidia. Right now ML is still mostly research but when real products start surfacing (or, perhaps, for real products to surface to begin with) they will have to settle on something, wether it's ROCM, OneAPI or something else.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  So far they have been screwed by Google, as they also don't have OpenCL anything on Android, and Vulkan compute is something for hardcore NDK users.

pjmlp 4y ago

Nor does anything Khronos related for compute APIs. While Apple initially promoted OpenCL, Android never supported it as official API rather Renderscript. So on iOS eventually Apple moved into Metal, usable from Objective-C and Swift, while on Android, Google has deprecated Renderscript usable from Java and Kotlin, pushing everyone to now learn Vulkan compute and do the integration on the NDK by themselves while learning C, C++ and GLSL on the process (as no big deal from their POV). Basically hardly anyone cares with such great usability story. /s

camel-cdr 4y ago
> Nor does anything Khronos related for compute APIs As you said below, vulkan compute does work on mobile devices, and while not from Khronos (other than SYCL) there are a bunch of higher level libraries using it.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  I haven't said that.

fxtentacle 4y ago

Yeah, TensorFlow. It's excellent for deployment on arbitrary platforms because it has an OpenGL back-end.