8 ms·

It's genuinely hard for me to understand some of the UI/UX decisions made in the latest versions of Windows. Old versions of Windows seemed to be built in a int

by kypro 4y ago

It's genuinely hard for me to understand some of the UI/UX decisions made in the latest versions of Windows. Old versions of Windows seemed to be built in a intuitive way so even someone with no computer experience would have a chance at finding what they were looking for. Icons were designed to look like what they do. Things were labelled with text. The interface was predictable. Where as today everything just seems obscure and random... For one, we don't have a "start" button anymore, we have a four square thing which you're suppose to just know to click. If I want to get to the control panel I have to erm... Search for it on the four squared menu thing? I'm not even sure there is a "proper" way to navigate there anymore, instead you just need to know there is a thing called the "control panel" and search for it. And even then you're never 100% sure if you want the "control panel" or "settings". And why do these two interfaces have completely different UIs? It's like the whole OS is designed to be as confusing as possible. If I didn't have experience with prior versions of Windows I'm not sure I'd even know how to do the most basic things.

batiudrami 4y ago
There are issues with the modern windows user interface but I’m not sure it’s these. For one “start” was never actually how most people started using the computer - it is through desktop shortcuts, so the label didn’t really make sense. The control panel is depreciated and remains for compatibility reasons and is deliberately hidden in favour of the settings button, which uses the now familiar gear icon.
- _gabe_ 4y ago
  > For one “start” was never actually how most people started using the computer - it is through desktop shortcuts This is just wrong haha. Here's a raymond chen post: > But one thing kept getting kicked up by usability tests: People booted up the computer and just sat there, unsure what to do next. > That’s when we decided to label the System button “Start”. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030722-00/?p=43083 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030722-00/?p=43... Edit: I hope this comment doesn't come off as rude or anything too :). I just remember reading about this in Raymond's book and the fact that the start menu originally didn't say start stuck out to me.
  - derefr 4y ago
    Ah, but that's because those people were presumably used to Windows 3.1, where when the computer started up, a window opened displaying an icon grid of programs you could open. From the perspective of one of these people, Windows 95 is like if Windows 3.1 failed to finish booting up, so Program Manager never started, and you were stuck just staring at the wallpaper.
  - smileybarry 4y ago
    Well, prior to Windows 95, Windows didn't really have a desktop. 3.1's desktop was just an icon-grid taskbar. (Now I'm wondering if the "single instance" behavior of moving to front when you relaunch an app was done to accommodate that UI pattern)
Atheros 4y ago
Companies like Microsoft do their research. They interview the gen-Z'ers and get consistent feedback about the UIs HackerNews likes: "They're old. They're boring. They're dated. I don't like them. My grandma would use this." Microsoft feels that it has no choice but to follow fashion trends and I am not sure that they're wrong to do so. Eventually minimalist UIs will go out of fashion and utilitarian evidence-based UIs may come back. But for now, the fashion is what it is and if companies want new users, they must follow the trend. Regarding the hodge-podge of different UI designs, I think that that is just a function of UI/UX designers not being honest with themselves and others about whether they're doing engineering, psychology or fashion. Fashion must change for the sake of change but engineering and psychology do not. This creates inconsistencies.
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  Current icons will go out of fashion, then all we have left are single letters that comprise major "applications"... "T" for twitter, "F" for Facebook, "I" for Instagram. You get the idea.
  - kjs3 4y ago
    Looks at work Windows laptop icons...stylized O for Outlook...Y for Yammer...T for Teams...E for Excel...etc., etc. Apparently, Microsoft is way ahead of you.
    - deafpolygon 4y ago
      Apparently.. :mindblown:
  - PhasmaFelis 4y ago
    The trouble is that the desktop metaphor depends on your programs being analogous to physical tools. A text editor is a notepad, a directory is a manila folder, a contacts app is a Rolodex. What iconic tool represents Twitter, or "app store," or "password manager," or "detect the song that's playing right now"? The metaphor breaks down and your icons become mere abstract shapes. If no other meaning is relevant, an eye-catchingly stylized version of the first letter of the service name at least hints at what this is.
jeroenhd 4y ago
> Old versions of Windows seemed to be built in a intuitive way so even someone with no computer experience would have a chance at finding what they were looking for. I think the goal is very much the same today, but the people first using a computer have probably already experienced Android or iOS. Computers are now for serious business and maybe high-end video games, the rest is done on phones and tablets. The world has gone mobile first so for beginners to pick up Windows, Windows needs to be "mobile-compatible". Icons are flat and abstract, buttons are big without borders, and half your screen being filled with UI is not bad as long as you full screen that important content when it matters. I don't think the clarity of older operating systems needs to go away per se, but people's expectations have dropped significantly with small touch screen devices and designers love showing off how "clean" their design looks.
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  I really dislike this trend. I switched my KDE theme to windows classic with the memphis icons and it's just a joy to use, even for a while. I like being able to tweak things, and the latest version of windows is even harder to do that.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  > Computers are now for serious business Always have been.
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    Exactly, we are using the IBM-compatible PC, not some Amiga-compatible computer.
- wongarsu 4y ago
  Mobile designs are horrible about being intuitive and discoverable, to the point that many apps have tutorials about where you can swipe or double-tap and what it does because there's no reasonable way to discern this from their UI. If that's what we base our desktop UIs on it's no wonder they become less usable.
varispeed 4y ago
I had to use Outlook recently after a decade or so to help someone declutter their mailbox. I was shocked how unintuitive and sometimes insane that software has turned to. It's basically useless. After spending hours trying to sort the emails, we decided to just back them up and delete everything. My friend moved to Gmail. I wonder what happened? Old Outlook while having some shortcomings was a manageable piece of software, whereas the new one is completely unusable. Other Microsoft software suffer the same problems like Teams. I feel sorry for any workplace that is using any Microsoft software. There are exceptions like VSCode, but given how things work at Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised if VSCode turned into crap nobody wants to use anymore.
- hulitu 4y ago
  > I wonder what happened ? They call it the Ribbon. A collections of icons (or as someone said, hyeroglyphs) arranged in who knows what order, which you need to guess what they do. Some have text, some not.
smileybarry 4y ago
As others said -- "Control Panel" is the older UI being phased out, "Settings" is the new, unified one. And on Windows 11 it really does include 99% of what Settings had. There's only a few screens here and there for very specific, niche things that are still linked-to via Settings. (e.g.: Color Management -- you can select a color profile in Settings but you need the older "advanced" UI for manually importing ICCs and such. Colorimeters and monitor drivers auto-import ICCs.) And "Start" has been gone for over 15 years. It transformed into the "Windows logo button" with Vista in 2006. The menu's naming was kept (and still is) but "Start" as text hasn't been a thing for a long time.
- 0cVlTeIATBs 4y ago
  I normally use the "Change what closing the lid does" setting on laptops but it is not in Settings on Windows 11 nor is there a link to it. You have to know what search term to use to find it.
  - smileybarry 4y ago
    Yeah, that one is still stuck in power plan settings for some reason. But they’ve been moving to one “Balanced” plan for a while now so I guess that entire panel is going away.
hulitu 4y ago
> UI/UX decisions made in the latest versions of Windows "Google and Apple does it so it must be good" "Tablets and phones are the future." "Users don't want to be bothered" "We know better"

by kypro 4y ago

batiudrami 4y ago

There are issues with the modern windows user interface but I’m not sure it’s these. For one “start” was never actually how most people started using the computer - it is through desktop shortcuts, so the label didn’t really make sense. The control panel is depreciated and remains for compatibility reasons and is deliberately hidden in favour of the settings button, which uses the now familiar gear icon.

_gabe_ 4y ago
> For one “start” was never actually how most people started using the computer - it is through desktop shortcuts This is just wrong haha. Here's a raymond chen post: > But one thing kept getting kicked up by usability tests: People booted up the computer and just sat there, unsure what to do next. > That’s when we decided to label the System button “Start”. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030722-00/?p=43083 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030722-00/?p=43... Edit: I hope this comment doesn't come off as rude or anything too :). I just remember reading about this in Raymond's book and the fact that the start menu originally didn't say start stuck out to me.
- derefr 4y ago
  Ah, but that's because those people were presumably used to Windows 3.1, where when the computer started up, a window opened displaying an icon grid of programs you could open. From the perspective of one of these people, Windows 95 is like if Windows 3.1 failed to finish booting up, so Program Manager never started, and you were stuck just staring at the wallpaper.
- smileybarry 4y ago
  Well, prior to Windows 95, Windows didn't really have a desktop. 3.1's desktop was just an icon-grid taskbar. (Now I'm wondering if the "single instance" behavior of moving to front when you relaunch an app was done to accommodate that UI pattern)

Atheros 4y ago

Companies like Microsoft do their research. They interview the gen-Z'ers and get consistent feedback about the UIs HackerNews likes: "They're old. They're boring. They're dated. I don't like them. My grandma would use this." Microsoft feels that it has no choice but to follow fashion trends and I am not sure that they're wrong to do so. Eventually minimalist UIs will go out of fashion and utilitarian evidence-based UIs may come back. But for now, the fashion is what it is and if companies want new users, they must follow the trend. Regarding the hodge-podge of different UI designs, I think that that is just a function of UI/UX designers not being honest with themselves and others about whether they're doing engineering, psychology or fashion. Fashion must change for the sake of change but engineering and psychology do not. This creates inconsistencies.

deafpolygon 4y ago
Current icons will go out of fashion, then all we have left are single letters that comprise major "applications"... "T" for twitter, "F" for Facebook, "I" for Instagram. You get the idea.
- kjs3 4y ago
  Looks at work Windows laptop icons...stylized O for Outlook...Y for Yammer...T for Teams...E for Excel...etc., etc. Apparently, Microsoft is way ahead of you.
  - deafpolygon 4y ago
    Apparently.. :mindblown:
- PhasmaFelis 4y ago
  The trouble is that the desktop metaphor depends on your programs being analogous to physical tools. A text editor is a notepad, a directory is a manila folder, a contacts app is a Rolodex. What iconic tool represents Twitter, or "app store," or "password manager," or "detect the song that's playing right now"? The metaphor breaks down and your icons become mere abstract shapes. If no other meaning is relevant, an eye-catchingly stylized version of the first letter of the service name at least hints at what this is.

jeroenhd 4y ago

> Old versions of Windows seemed to be built in a intuitive way so even someone with no computer experience would have a chance at finding what they were looking for. I think the goal is very much the same today, but the people first using a computer have probably already experienced Android or iOS. Computers are now for serious business and maybe high-end video games, the rest is done on phones and tablets. The world has gone mobile first so for beginners to pick up Windows, Windows needs to be "mobile-compatible". Icons are flat and abstract, buttons are big without borders, and half your screen being filled with UI is not bad as long as you full screen that important content when it matters. I don't think the clarity of older operating systems needs to go away per se, but people's expectations have dropped significantly with small touch screen devices and designers love showing off how "clean" their design looks.

deafpolygon 4y ago
I really dislike this trend. I switched my KDE theme to windows classic with the memphis icons and it's just a joy to use, even for a while. I like being able to tweak things, and the latest version of windows is even harder to do that.
moffkalast 4y ago
> Computers are now for serious business Always have been.
- wongarsu 4y ago
  Exactly, we are using the IBM-compatible PC, not some Amiga-compatible computer.
wongarsu 4y ago
Mobile designs are horrible about being intuitive and discoverable, to the point that many apps have tutorials about where you can swipe or double-tap and what it does because there's no reasonable way to discern this from their UI. If that's what we base our desktop UIs on it's no wonder they become less usable.

varispeed 4y ago

I had to use Outlook recently after a decade or so to help someone declutter their mailbox. I was shocked how unintuitive and sometimes insane that software has turned to. It's basically useless. After spending hours trying to sort the emails, we decided to just back them up and delete everything. My friend moved to Gmail. I wonder what happened? Old Outlook while having some shortcomings was a manageable piece of software, whereas the new one is completely unusable. Other Microsoft software suffer the same problems like Teams. I feel sorry for any workplace that is using any Microsoft software. There are exceptions like VSCode, but given how things work at Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised if VSCode turned into crap nobody wants to use anymore.

hulitu 4y ago
> I wonder what happened ? They call it the Ribbon. A collections of icons (or as someone said, hyeroglyphs) arranged in who knows what order, which you need to guess what they do. Some have text, some not.

smileybarry 4y ago

As others said -- "Control Panel" is the older UI being phased out, "Settings" is the new, unified one. And on Windows 11 it really does include 99% of what Settings had. There's only a few screens here and there for very specific, niche things that are still linked-to via Settings. (e.g.: Color Management -- you can select a color profile in Settings but you need the older "advanced" UI for manually importing ICCs and such. Colorimeters and monitor drivers auto-import ICCs.) And "Start" has been gone for over 15 years. It transformed into the "Windows logo button" with Vista in 2006. The menu's naming was kept (and still is) but "Start" as text hasn't been a thing for a long time.

0cVlTeIATBs 4y ago
I normally use the "Change what closing the lid does" setting on laptops but it is not in Settings on Windows 11 nor is there a link to it. You have to know what search term to use to find it.
- smileybarry 4y ago
  Yeah, that one is still stuck in power plan settings for some reason. But they’ve been moving to one “Balanced” plan for a while now so I guess that entire panel is going away.

hulitu 4y ago

> UI/UX decisions made in the latest versions of Windows "Google and Apple does it so it must be good" "Tablets and phones are the future." "Users don't want to be bothered" "We know better"