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I flew into JFK in December and was surprised the number of concurrent operations going on… landing queues of 5+ planes in the sky for the two runways, long tak

I flew into JFK in December and was surprised the number of concurrent operations going on… landing queues of 5+ planes in the sky for the two runways, long takeoff queues, so many land operations… once you touch down it sure feels like the pilot knows they have to get that plane off the runway ASAP. Felt much more busy than I have previously going through LAX/SFO/London/Dubai. I wonder if the level of traffic at JFK is appropriate. Maybe Newark and LaGuardia need to take on more of the load. And maybe a city airport shouldn’t be the primary international entrance point for what feels like half the country

cguess 4y ago
Pretty much all three airports (EWR, LGA, JFK) are already at capacity, so there's no room for others to take any load.
- ckdarby 4y ago
  A solution that'll anger people but resolve the capacity issus, all flights with not a final destination in USA can only connect through Stewart airport.
  - cguess 4y ago
    That airport has one cafe. It's a nice little regional airport (I know they serve international destinations I've flow out of it to KEF, but it's very small). I'm not even sure how many planes land without a final US destination in the US? The passengers may be going on, but are the planes?
  - qazxcvbnmlp 4y ago
    Airport is at full capacity -> route more pax through other airports. A lot of people benefit from keeping JFK full. Airlines, pax wanting direct flights to other destinations etc. Currently ~20% of New York passengers are connecting passengers, you could route them through other airports and free up capacity with much less disruption then making the New York local passengers have an extra connection on the way out.
  - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
    Do they have a sterile transit area to support international transfers? I didn’t think any US airport had that and US requires transit visas and immigration clearance to transit
John23832 4y ago
Newark and LaGuardia are just as packed. The nyc airspace is just over used.
- ddalex 4y ago
  Sounds like the airports need to increase the pricing to the point where it's gonna reduce a bit the traffic.
  - cmurf 4y ago
    What pricing? Airports are in-effect giant malls. They rent out space to shops, and airlines. Ostensibly the airport authority has set the pricing to maximize net income. For example DIA's authority is the city and county of Denver. JFK's is the Port Authority, which includes EWR and LGA, but also much of other transit in the area including LIRR, and MTA, but includes seaports, bridges and tunnels, and ... real estate. ATC is run by the FAA whose budget is set by Congress. Everything is paid for. There are no per use fees. Landing fees are not federal, they're imposed by (local) airport authorities. The weather, flight service, ATC, national airspace system, navaids, all of that stuff is provided by the federal government. ATC and FAA don't want to be in the business of collecting fees. And airport authorities don't want them to because it would necessarily cut into their take, and it would also mean they lack exclusive control to set pricing and thus demand and thus limit their ability to maximize income. It's a shopping mall.
Hnrobert42 4y ago
after reading your comment, I was surprised to learn that JFK did indeed land the most international passengers in 2021. https://www.statista.com/statistics/639826/leading-airports-united-states-for-international-air-passenger-traffic/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/639826/leading-airports-...
camillomiller 4y ago
A colleague of mine was blocked in NY overnight on a flight from Rome in early Jan, as the incoming flight clipped the tail of another airplane right after landing. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ita-airways-investigates-ground-collision-new-yorks-jfk-airport-2023-01-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ita-airwa... This stuff is happening a bit too often in JFK as of lately... From the article: > The Italian airline, noting it fully respects all safety regulations, said in Thursday's statement that "collisions during taxiing manoeuvres are an increasing phenomenon ... especially in highly congested airports like JFK."
diebeforei485 4y ago
The safety issues at JFK stem from the fact that it is a very old airport, built for the turboprop era.
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  That’s LaGuardia! JFK was built to address this.
refurb 4y ago
Newark is super congested too. I remember flying from Michigan to Newark once and the ticket said “2 hours 45min” and I thought that was nuts, it’s like an hour flight. Turns out they tack on an hour leaving and coming for taxing and waiting in line. At least that’s how it was a decade ago.
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  At least they have the space to try to improve it, new terminal actually looks world class https://thepointsguy.com/news/newark-airport-terminal-a/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/newark-airport-terminal-a/
  - refurb 4y ago
    That’ll be a nice upgrade. Newark and La Guardia look so old. Same with Terminal 1 in Boston. The Detroit airport looks amazing next to them.
    - ancientworldnow 4y ago
      You haven't been to La Guardia recently. It's by far the nicest airport in the tristate and one of the better ones in the country after the remodel. JFK is the one new yorkers avoid now (or EWR if you don't live in Manhattan).
      - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
        Didn’t even realize they rebuilt a terminal too, it does look pretty cool: https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-look-delta-new-laguardia-terminal/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-look-delta-new-laguardia...
akira2501 4y ago
> once you touch down it sure feels like the pilot knows they have to get that plane off the runway ASAP Do yourself a favor and do a youtube search for "kennedy steve." He's famous for managing this chaos with a commanding voice and prompt instruction while maintaining a good sense of humor.
- yread 4y ago
  The pilots at pprune mostly don't seemto like jfk so much. They complain of arrogant controllers speaking too fast in nonstandard terms leading to dangerous situations. And the air traffic control, ground and gate operations don't seem to communicate properly. Just check how often planes bump into each other at the gate there
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  Thanks for the mention! I was entertained by him for a bit last night on YouTube. In his interview he talked about how much the M3 airlines didn’t appreciate his style, good times

cguess 4y ago

Pretty much all three airports (EWR, LGA, JFK) are already at capacity, so there's no room for others to take any load.

ckdarby 4y ago
A solution that'll anger people but resolve the capacity issus, all flights with not a final destination in USA can only connect through Stewart airport.
- cguess 4y ago
  That airport has one cafe. It's a nice little regional airport (I know they serve international destinations I've flow out of it to KEF, but it's very small). I'm not even sure how many planes land without a final US destination in the US? The passengers may be going on, but are the planes?
- qazxcvbnmlp 4y ago
  Airport is at full capacity -> route more pax through other airports. A lot of people benefit from keeping JFK full. Airlines, pax wanting direct flights to other destinations etc. Currently ~20% of New York passengers are connecting passengers, you could route them through other airports and free up capacity with much less disruption then making the New York local passengers have an extra connection on the way out.
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  Do they have a sterile transit area to support international transfers? I didn’t think any US airport had that and US requires transit visas and immigration clearance to transit

John23832 4y ago

Newark and LaGuardia are just as packed. The nyc airspace is just over used.

ddalex 4y ago
Sounds like the airports need to increase the pricing to the point where it's gonna reduce a bit the traffic.
- cmurf 4y ago
  What pricing? Airports are in-effect giant malls. They rent out space to shops, and airlines. Ostensibly the airport authority has set the pricing to maximize net income. For example DIA's authority is the city and county of Denver. JFK's is the Port Authority, which includes EWR and LGA, but also much of other transit in the area including LIRR, and MTA, but includes seaports, bridges and tunnels, and ... real estate. ATC is run by the FAA whose budget is set by Congress. Everything is paid for. There are no per use fees. Landing fees are not federal, they're imposed by (local) airport authorities. The weather, flight service, ATC, national airspace system, navaids, all of that stuff is provided by the federal government. ATC and FAA don't want to be in the business of collecting fees. And airport authorities don't want them to because it would necessarily cut into their take, and it would also mean they lack exclusive control to set pricing and thus demand and thus limit their ability to maximize income. It's a shopping mall.

Hnrobert42 4y ago

after reading your comment, I was surprised to learn that JFK did indeed land the most international passengers in 2021. https://www.statista.com/statistics/639826/leading-airports-united-states-for-international-air-passenger-traffic/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/639826/leading-airports-...

camillomiller 4y ago

A colleague of mine was blocked in NY overnight on a flight from Rome in early Jan, as the incoming flight clipped the tail of another airplane right after landing. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ita-airways-investigates-ground-collision-new-yorks-jfk-airport-2023-01-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ita-airwa... This stuff is happening a bit too often in JFK as of lately... From the article: > The Italian airline, noting it fully respects all safety regulations, said in Thursday's statement that "collisions during taxiing manoeuvres are an increasing phenomenon ... especially in highly congested airports like JFK."

diebeforei485 4y ago

The safety issues at JFK stem from the fact that it is a very old airport, built for the turboprop era.

gymbeaux 4y ago
That’s LaGuardia! JFK was built to address this.

refurb 4y ago

Newark is super congested too. I remember flying from Michigan to Newark once and the ticket said “2 hours 45min” and I thought that was nuts, it’s like an hour flight. Turns out they tack on an hour leaving and coming for taxing and waiting in line. At least that’s how it was a decade ago.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago
At least they have the space to try to improve it, new terminal actually looks world class https://thepointsguy.com/news/newark-airport-terminal-a/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/newark-airport-terminal-a/
- refurb 4y ago
  That’ll be a nice upgrade. Newark and La Guardia look so old. Same with Terminal 1 in Boston. The Detroit airport looks amazing next to them.
  - ancientworldnow 4y ago
    You haven't been to La Guardia recently. It's by far the nicest airport in the tristate and one of the better ones in the country after the remodel. JFK is the one new yorkers avoid now (or EWR if you don't live in Manhattan).
    - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
      Didn’t even realize they rebuilt a terminal too, it does look pretty cool: https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-look-delta-new-laguardia-terminal/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-look-delta-new-laguardia...

akira2501 4y ago

> once you touch down it sure feels like the pilot knows they have to get that plane off the runway ASAP Do yourself a favor and do a youtube search for "kennedy steve." He's famous for managing this chaos with a commanding voice and prompt instruction while maintaining a good sense of humor.

yread 4y ago
The pilots at pprune mostly don't seemto like jfk so much. They complain of arrogant controllers speaking too fast in nonstandard terms leading to dangerous situations. And the air traffic control, ground and gate operations don't seem to communicate properly. Just check how often planes bump into each other at the gate there
kylehotchkiss 4y ago
Thanks for the mention! I was entertained by him for a bit last night on YouTube. In his interview he talked about how much the M3 airlines didn’t appreciate his style, good times