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You’re completely ignoring the fact that the government not forcing a single church is the separation of church and state being talked about

Spivak 4y ago
“We can make Christianity the de facto law of the land, have federal holidays be Christian holidays, have the interests of the church intertwined with that of the state, have “secular” state institutions mirror christian sacraments, have our pledge of allegiance essentially be a declaration of our country being Christian — but hey, they can’t make you go to church on Sunday” is not exactly what one might call a strong separation.
- WeylandYutani 4y ago
  Is there an alternative to swearing on the Bible for atheist politicians in the US?
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    You can swear on the constitution or any book you please
- edgyquant 4y ago
  American culture is Christian due to it descending from Europeans. No shit. I never said I wanted to listen to your opinions about the modern state of religion in America. I told you a fact, that church and state are separated by law in this nation and it’s encoded into the bill of rights. That you dislike American culture having evolved from a Christian one is your own axe to grind clearly.
  - trasz3 4y ago
    American culture descended from Christian fundamentalism, not Christianity. It’s a huge difference and it shows all over the place in how bigoted US laws are, compared to most of Europe.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      Incorrect. What we now call "Christian fundamentalism" did not exist prior to the 1800s.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    America's culture is syncretic, with three primary components: 1. A fundamentalist Protestant Christian ethos, derived from the Puritans; 2. A cosmopolitan and secular ethos, derived from British and Western European mercantilism; 3. Literally everything else, including the last 240 years of immigration and infusion by every non-Christian group under the sun. Whenever people say that America is "Christian," I wonder if they mean it in that syncretic sense, or in an attempt to erase or obscure it.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      The puritans were fleeing persecution by a state church along with economic issues
  - Spivak 4y ago
    It’s not about the culture, it’s the fact that the separation isn’t actually really all of that separate. If you swap the “secular” elements enshrined in our government to another faith it becomes glaringly obvious that we are respecting an establishment of religion. * One nation, under Allah, indivisible… (Islam) * Marriage is a legal institution between one man any many women (Mormon) * “The office is closed for Yom Kippur next Monday.” (Judaism) * The right to bodily autonomy begin at birth so there is no moral issue with abortion (Satanic Temple) Of course the people are descendants of protestants and so our customs would naturally reflect that but so does our government. As a country we were so concerned about escaping state sponsored religion that we didn’t stop to think at all about how codifying norms into law that come from a particular religion end up creating a religious rule in all but name. Like we don’t even pretend to have religious freedom in any meaningful sense — your right to practice the traditions of your faith or have your institutions respected ends where what is acceptable and normal as defined by Christians ends.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Your examples are as much cultural as religious, at least in this era. "Under god" was added to the anthem in the 50s, and I doubt it'll last another decade. Plural marriage isn't widely practiced or supported for pragmatic reasons. Holidays are religious artifacts, yet not all of them, and there is no forced participation anymore. (Except in so far as government services are unavailable.) Abortion rights have and are evolving. As the old, more religious folks die off it should swing the other way soon.

Spivak 4y ago

“We can make Christianity the de facto law of the land, have federal holidays be Christian holidays, have the interests of the church intertwined with that of the state, have “secular” state institutions mirror christian sacraments, have our pledge of allegiance essentially be a declaration of our country being Christian — but hey, they can’t make you go to church on Sunday” is not exactly what one might call a strong separation.

WeylandYutani 4y ago
Is there an alternative to swearing on the Bible for atheist politicians in the US?
- edgyquant 4y ago
  You can swear on the constitution or any book you please
edgyquant 4y ago
American culture is Christian due to it descending from Europeans. No shit. I never said I wanted to listen to your opinions about the modern state of religion in America. I told you a fact, that church and state are separated by law in this nation and it’s encoded into the bill of rights. That you dislike American culture having evolved from a Christian one is your own axe to grind clearly.
- trasz3 4y ago
  American culture descended from Christian fundamentalism, not Christianity. It’s a huge difference and it shows all over the place in how bigoted US laws are, compared to most of Europe.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    Incorrect. What we now call "Christian fundamentalism" did not exist prior to the 1800s.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  America's culture is syncretic, with three primary components: 1. A fundamentalist Protestant Christian ethos, derived from the Puritans; 2. A cosmopolitan and secular ethos, derived from British and Western European mercantilism; 3. Literally everything else, including the last 240 years of immigration and infusion by every non-Christian group under the sun. Whenever people say that America is "Christian," I wonder if they mean it in that syncretic sense, or in an attempt to erase or obscure it.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    The puritans were fleeing persecution by a state church along with economic issues
- Spivak 4y ago
  It’s not about the culture, it’s the fact that the separation isn’t actually really all of that separate. If you swap the “secular” elements enshrined in our government to another faith it becomes glaringly obvious that we are respecting an establishment of religion. * One nation, under Allah, indivisible… (Islam) * Marriage is a legal institution between one man any many women (Mormon) * “The office is closed for Yom Kippur next Monday.” (Judaism) * The right to bodily autonomy begin at birth so there is no moral issue with abortion (Satanic Temple) Of course the people are descendants of protestants and so our customs would naturally reflect that but so does our government. As a country we were so concerned about escaping state sponsored religion that we didn’t stop to think at all about how codifying norms into law that come from a particular religion end up creating a religious rule in all but name. Like we don’t even pretend to have religious freedom in any meaningful sense — your right to practice the traditions of your faith or have your institutions respected ends where what is acceptable and normal as defined by Christians ends.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Your examples are as much cultural as religious, at least in this era. "Under god" was added to the anthem in the 50s, and I doubt it'll last another decade. Plural marriage isn't widely practiced or supported for pragmatic reasons. Holidays are religious artifacts, yet not all of them, and there is no forced participation anymore. (Except in so far as government services are unavailable.) Abortion rights have and are evolving. As the old, more religious folks die off it should swing the other way soon.