4 ms·

Venice’s lagoon of 2,000 lost boats

pugworthy 4y ago
I have to wonder if this isn't a long standing thing - like for hundreds of years. In the past the boats were wood and metal - and rotted away. Now they are plastic boats and it's another story.
- bennyelv 4y ago
  Even wooden boats take a very very long time to fully degrade in salt water. If you go around the coast of the UK and look what's sitting in the mud on our shores you'll find a surprisingly large number of ship/boat remains. It tends to be the only the structural parts like ribs and keel that persevere. I guess fibreglass will inevitably last longer, but to put some scale on this the Mary Rose sank in the Solent about 500 years ago, and her wreck was recovered in the early 1980s and put in a museum in Portsmouth dockyard.
bilekas 4y ago
> The Venice lagoon is controlled by 26 different entities Italian beurocracy is truly something to behold.
- simonebrunozzi 4y ago
  I'm Italian, but I don't need to pretend Italy is perfect, and bureaucracy is one of the worst things about living in Italy (especially after you have lived for a dozen years abroad). One, however, should also appreciate the intricate history of most of Italy, including Venice, which is partially the cause for such bureaucracy. Republic of Venice, the surrender to Napoleon, Austria, the reunification of Italy, etc., in less than 100 years.
  - bilekas 4y ago
    Absolutely I understand (most) of the complicated history of power distribution in Italy. Currently living here though, the bureaucracy has become something to just be expected and there really doesn't seem any interest in changing it.
    - willyt 4y ago
      Is it fast though? I’d rather fill out 10 forms and get a definitive answer in two weeks than fill out one form and wait up to a year for the definitive answer like in the UK.
      - bilekas 4y ago
        Hmm, it depends really, if you manage to fill everything required correctly, by some miracle, it's not bad. There can be a lot of frustrations if you're missing something though.
      - jaclaz 4y ago
        >Is it fast though? I’d rather fill out 10 forms and get a definitive answer in two weeks than fill out one form and wait up to a year for the definitive answer like in the UK. Of course not. It is more like 2-3 forms and no definitive answer (more probably a single, non definitive one) in 6 months time, then another couple forms and hopefully a definitive one in another 6-12 months. Seriously, there is not any "standard", some things are (or have become) incredibly (compared to previous Italian bureaucracy) easy and straightforward, some have become much worse than before.
        prmoustache 4y ago
        sounds pretty much like Spain :)
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - detritus 4y ago
test1235 4y ago
>Venice lacks the infrastructure to deal with unwanted boats That seems unbelievable, given the nature of the place, especially when "To a Venetian, owning a boat is almost like owning a car".
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  I grew up somewhere economically similar to Venice (i.e. tourist place) By "lacks the infrastructure" they mean that the local business and regulatory environment is too hostile to the kind of business that would dispose of such things for said business to exist within the distance this waste can economically be transported, so the locals just dump stuff because what's the other option? You can't "just run a boat dismantling business" on the outskirts of somewhere like Venice even if the economic need is obvious because a large part of that kind of business involves regional competition (selling parts over the internet and whatnot, fixing and reselling stuff) and the concessions your local government will demand in order to make your business in line with whatever quaint image their tourism empire is built on and the realities of the local economy (inflated cost of literally everything you need to buy, including labor) will make you noncompetitive.

I have to wonder if this isn't a long standing thing - like for hundreds of years. In the past the boats were wood and metal - and rotted away. Now they are plastic boats and it's another story.

bennyelv 4y ago
Even wooden boats take a very very long time to fully degrade in salt water. If you go around the coast of the UK and look what's sitting in the mud on our shores you'll find a surprisingly large number of ship/boat remains. It tends to be the only the structural parts like ribs and keel that persevere. I guess fibreglass will inevitably last longer, but to put some scale on this the Mary Rose sank in the Solent about 500 years ago, and her wreck was recovered in the early 1980s and put in a museum in Portsmouth dockyard.

bilekas 4y ago

> The Venice lagoon is controlled by 26 different entities Italian beurocracy is truly something to behold.

simonebrunozzi 4y ago
I'm Italian, but I don't need to pretend Italy is perfect, and bureaucracy is one of the worst things about living in Italy (especially after you have lived for a dozen years abroad). One, however, should also appreciate the intricate history of most of Italy, including Venice, which is partially the cause for such bureaucracy. Republic of Venice, the surrender to Napoleon, Austria, the reunification of Italy, etc., in less than 100 years.
- bilekas 4y ago
  Absolutely I understand (most) of the complicated history of power distribution in Italy. Currently living here though, the bureaucracy has become something to just be expected and there really doesn't seem any interest in changing it.
  - willyt 4y ago
    Is it fast though? I’d rather fill out 10 forms and get a definitive answer in two weeks than fill out one form and wait up to a year for the definitive answer like in the UK.
    - bilekas 4y ago
      Hmm, it depends really, if you manage to fill everything required correctly, by some miracle, it's not bad. There can be a lot of frustrations if you're missing something though.
    - jaclaz 4y ago
      >Is it fast though? I’d rather fill out 10 forms and get a definitive answer in two weeks than fill out one form and wait up to a year for the definitive answer like in the UK. Of course not. It is more like 2-3 forms and no definitive answer (more probably a single, non definitive one) in 6 months time, then another couple forms and hopefully a definitive one in another 6-12 months. Seriously, there is not any "standard", some things are (or have become) incredibly (compared to previous Italian bureaucracy) easy and straightforward, some have become much worse than before.
      - prmoustache 4y ago
        sounds pretty much like Spain :)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - detritus 4y ago

test1235 4y ago

>Venice lacks the infrastructure to deal with unwanted boats That seems unbelievable, given the nature of the place, especially when "To a Venetian, owning a boat is almost like owning a car".

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
I grew up somewhere economically similar to Venice (i.e. tourist place) By "lacks the infrastructure" they mean that the local business and regulatory environment is too hostile to the kind of business that would dispose of such things for said business to exist within the distance this waste can economically be transported, so the locals just dump stuff because what's the other option? You can't "just run a boat dismantling business" on the outskirts of somewhere like Venice even if the economic need is obvious because a large part of that kind of business involves regional competition (selling parts over the internet and whatnot, fixing and reselling stuff) and the concessions your local government will demand in order to make your business in line with whatever quaint image their tourism empire is built on and the realities of the local economy (inflated cost of literally everything you need to buy, including labor) will make you noncompetitive.