6 ms·

Californians voted to spend billions on water storage but state sitting on cash (2018)

24 points by olivermarks 4y ago

whatever1 4y ago
specially in California Megacities that are next to the sea, why we are not storing desalinated water? Or is most water demand outside the cities for farming and industrial purposes ?
- diogenescynic 4y ago
  > Or is most water demand outside the cities for farming and industrial purposes ? This is exactly the issue. Most of it is used by agriculture and golf courses.
kbos87 4y ago
Personal take - the way that the issue currently facing California always seems to be referred to as a “prolonged drought” undermines the seriousness of the situation. A drought sounds unfortunate, but normal and temporary. Isn’t the reality closer to something like “we’re at the beginning of the permanent end of abundant water in the west?” In situations like this where the reality is dire and most people would rather put on rose colored glasses, I think the language really matters.
- olivermarks 4y ago
  The reservoir system in California was originally set up to cater to the typical five year peaks and troughs in rain fall so there would always be stored water. Half the California population is in Los Angeles and below but their water is coming from northern California. https://www.californiasun.co/the-curiously-lop-sided-population-of-california/ https://www.californiasun.co/the-curiously-lop-sided-populat... California's infrastructure was built to serve a population of 20m but it is currently at 40m and rising with no efforts despite funding in place to increase water storage and service, just bleating about 'droughts'. The last reservoir was created in 1980, 40+ years ago. The climate anxiety crowd would like you to think water is 'running out' but the reality is just spectacular mismanagement incompetence. https://andthewest.stanford.edu/2022/does-drought-prone-california-need-another-reservoir/ https://andthewest.stanford.edu/2022/does-drought-prone-cali...
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    > currently at 40m and rising California population is down half a million since July 2020 and continues to shrink.
    - olivermarks 4y ago
      Documented population...everyone uses water though
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > Half the California population is in Los Angeles and below but their water is coming from northern California. And what's not coming from NorCal is coming from the Colorado River. > The climate anxiety crowd would like you to think water is 'running out' but the reality is just spectacular mismanagement incompetence. The reality is both. California was able to get away with mismanagement for a long time, but climate change throwing a wrench in the wet/dry cycle means getting away with said mismanagement is decreasingly viable. Aquifers / water tables are dangerously low and getting lower. California has one of the longest coastlines in the US. Droughts could be entirely irrelevant if California extracted its cranium from its rectum and put that coastline to use with desal plants galore.
    - TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
      Don't even need desalination plants; They could use tidal energy to spray seawater into the air, increasing evaporation and rainfall. They could pump seawater to several valleys below sealevel, and naturally desalinate, but they would have to cooperate with other states. And those are just a few of many possibilities.
      - zach_garwood 4y ago
        > They could pump seawater to several valleys below sealevel, and naturally desalinate Could you explain how this works? Why does the valley need to be below sea level?
AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
(2018)
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  Indeed. The submission headline doesn't apply in 2023. All of the money has been allocated. https://bondaccountability.resources.ca.gov/P1Program.aspx?ProgramAllocationPK=606&Program=Water%20Storage%20Investment%20Program&ProgramPK=451&PropositionPK=48 https://bondaccountability.resources.ca.gov/P1Program.aspx?P...
diogenescynic 4y ago
California: the land that forgot how. Seems like we've become incapable or unwilling to build new infrastructure, housing, or even essentials for life like water reservoirs. How can a state with the wealth/income of one of the top 10 countries in the world be managed so incompetently? Is it purely corruption or is it that voters simply don't demand accountability and thus get what they vote for? Really wish I could understand how California can be so high achieving and yet totally dysfunctional in so many other ways.
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
  Ask America's Greatest Capitalist, Nancy Pelosi. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEPVlWarVMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEPVlWarVMI
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > California: the land that forgot how. Seems like we've become incapable or unwilling to build new infrastructure, housing, or even essentials for life like water reservoirs. Building new reservoirs doesn't help when the problem is inflow, not storage. (Desalination, OTOH, can help, and is being actively pursued.) > How can a state with the wealth/income of one of the top 10 countries in the world be managed so incompetently? To the extent this isn’t just a misapprehension actively fueled by political propaganda, largely Constitutional fallout fron 1970s tax revolt politics. (The supermajority threshold to raise any individual tax, even if it is a net tax cut, for instance makes it practically impossible to realign the tax system; until recently repealed, the similar requirement to pass an annual budget had even bigger effects on governability.)
- linguae 4y ago
  This is just my opinion, but I believe it is because California is the land of the “I got mine!” mentality, the types who pull up the ladders that they climbed. Housing has effectively been outsourced to the Central Valley and the desert due to a “sorry, we’re full” mentality along the coast despite the fact that there’s plenty of room to densify existing metro areas instead of creating sprawl that stretches over 100 miles. Transportation and other infrastructure projects get routinely delayed or even canceled due to the same mentality. Even mass-transit projects that are more environmentally friendly get the same treatment. There is this large contingent of Californians, especially along the coast, who are hellbent on preserving an imagined 1950’s California where the population was much smaller. While they’re not able to stop job growth in the major metro areas, they are able to offload housing to far-flung places, and they are able to block or at least delay infrastructure projects that help serve this increased population. This is starting to reach severe levels. Housing is very expensive, homelessness abounds, the prices for anything sensitive to rents and labor are sky-high (have you been to a restaurant lately?), and California seems to have a hard time maintaining and expanding its infrastructure to meet a population of 40 million. “If you build it, they will come; therefore, if you don’t build it, they won’t come” is the thinking of many influential Californians when it comes to housing and infrastructure. But, lo and behold, the people kept coming due to the job market, and California wasn’t ready for them. We’re now dealing with the effects of roughly 50 years of such thinking, and it’s about time California changes its mentality before it kills the goose that laid the golden eggs that made California so prosperous.
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24 points by olivermarks 4y ago

specially in California Megacities that are next to the sea, why we are not storing desalinated water? Or is most water demand outside the cities for farming and industrial purposes ?

diogenescynic 4y ago
> Or is most water demand outside the cities for farming and industrial purposes ? This is exactly the issue. Most of it is used by agriculture and golf courses.

kbos87 4y ago

Personal take - the way that the issue currently facing California always seems to be referred to as a “prolonged drought” undermines the seriousness of the situation. A drought sounds unfortunate, but normal and temporary. Isn’t the reality closer to something like “we’re at the beginning of the permanent end of abundant water in the west?” In situations like this where the reality is dire and most people would rather put on rose colored glasses, I think the language really matters.

olivermarks 4y ago
The reservoir system in California was originally set up to cater to the typical five year peaks and troughs in rain fall so there would always be stored water. Half the California population is in Los Angeles and below but their water is coming from northern California. https://www.californiasun.co/the-curiously-lop-sided-population-of-california/ https://www.californiasun.co/the-curiously-lop-sided-populat... California's infrastructure was built to serve a population of 20m but it is currently at 40m and rising with no efforts despite funding in place to increase water storage and service, just bleating about 'droughts'. The last reservoir was created in 1980, 40+ years ago. The climate anxiety crowd would like you to think water is 'running out' but the reality is just spectacular mismanagement incompetence. https://andthewest.stanford.edu/2022/does-drought-prone-california-need-another-reservoir/ https://andthewest.stanford.edu/2022/does-drought-prone-cali...
- colechristensen 4y ago
  > currently at 40m and rising California population is down half a million since July 2020 and continues to shrink.
  - olivermarks 4y ago
    Documented population...everyone uses water though
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > Half the California population is in Los Angeles and below but their water is coming from northern California. And what's not coming from NorCal is coming from the Colorado River. > The climate anxiety crowd would like you to think water is 'running out' but the reality is just spectacular mismanagement incompetence. The reality is both. California was able to get away with mismanagement for a long time, but climate change throwing a wrench in the wet/dry cycle means getting away with said mismanagement is decreasingly viable. Aquifers / water tables are dangerously low and getting lower. California has one of the longest coastlines in the US. Droughts could be entirely irrelevant if California extracted its cranium from its rectum and put that coastline to use with desal plants galore.
  - TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
    Don't even need desalination plants; They could use tidal energy to spray seawater into the air, increasing evaporation and rainfall. They could pump seawater to several valleys below sealevel, and naturally desalinate, but they would have to cooperate with other states. And those are just a few of many possibilities.
    - zach_garwood 4y ago
      > They could pump seawater to several valleys below sealevel, and naturally desalinate Could you explain how this works? Why does the valley need to be below sea level?

AdamJacobMuller 4y ago

(2018)

lern_too_spel 4y ago
Indeed. The submission headline doesn't apply in 2023. All of the money has been allocated. https://bondaccountability.resources.ca.gov/P1Program.aspx?ProgramAllocationPK=606&Program=Water%20Storage%20Investment%20Program&ProgramPK=451&PropositionPK=48 https://bondaccountability.resources.ca.gov/P1Program.aspx?P...

diogenescynic 4y ago

California: the land that forgot how. Seems like we've become incapable or unwilling to build new infrastructure, housing, or even essentials for life like water reservoirs. How can a state with the wealth/income of one of the top 10 countries in the world be managed so incompetently? Is it purely corruption or is it that voters simply don't demand accountability and thus get what they vote for? Really wish I could understand how California can be so high achieving and yet totally dysfunctional in so many other ways.

TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
Ask America's Greatest Capitalist, Nancy Pelosi. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEPVlWarVMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEPVlWarVMI
dragonwriter 4y ago
> California: the land that forgot how. Seems like we've become incapable or unwilling to build new infrastructure, housing, or even essentials for life like water reservoirs. Building new reservoirs doesn't help when the problem is inflow, not storage. (Desalination, OTOH, can help, and is being actively pursued.) > How can a state with the wealth/income of one of the top 10 countries in the world be managed so incompetently? To the extent this isn’t just a misapprehension actively fueled by political propaganda, largely Constitutional fallout fron 1970s tax revolt politics. (The supermajority threshold to raise any individual tax, even if it is a net tax cut, for instance makes it practically impossible to realign the tax system; until recently repealed, the similar requirement to pass an annual budget had even bigger effects on governability.)
linguae 4y ago
This is just my opinion, but I believe it is because California is the land of the “I got mine!” mentality, the types who pull up the ladders that they climbed. Housing has effectively been outsourced to the Central Valley and the desert due to a “sorry, we’re full” mentality along the coast despite the fact that there’s plenty of room to densify existing metro areas instead of creating sprawl that stretches over 100 miles. Transportation and other infrastructure projects get routinely delayed or even canceled due to the same mentality. Even mass-transit projects that are more environmentally friendly get the same treatment. There is this large contingent of Californians, especially along the coast, who are hellbent on preserving an imagined 1950’s California where the population was much smaller. While they’re not able to stop job growth in the major metro areas, they are able to offload housing to far-flung places, and they are able to block or at least delay infrastructure projects that help serve this increased population. This is starting to reach severe levels. Housing is very expensive, homelessness abounds, the prices for anything sensitive to rents and labor are sky-high (have you been to a restaurant lately?), and California seems to have a hard time maintaining and expanding its infrastructure to meet a population of 40 million. “If you build it, they will come; therefore, if you don’t build it, they won’t come” is the thinking of many influential Californians when it comes to housing and infrastructure. But, lo and behold, the people kept coming due to the job market, and California wasn’t ready for them. We’re now dealing with the effects of roughly 50 years of such thinking, and it’s about time California changes its mentality before it kills the goose that laid the golden eggs that made California so prosperous.

deleted 4y ago

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