3 ms·

At this point, why would anyone believe they ever stopped? No real warrant has ever been required...

by LatteLazy 4y ago

tremon 4y ago
Has anyone been held accountable for the previous transgressions?
- adastra22 4y ago
  Only the guy who revealed that transgressions were going on.
  - godelski 4y ago
    I'm guessing you're referring to Snowden, but there are plenty of others like Reality Winner that have gone to jail (Reality got the longest sentence ever for this type of crime). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    Those transgressions were revealed by PBS a couple of years before.
- CWuestefeld 4y ago
  Has the government ever been held accountable for previous transgressions?
- CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
  https://hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com/ https://hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com/
tptacek 4y ago
It's not the premise of the article that it ever had. The IC has, and always has had, the broad authority to collect information on foreign nationals abroad, without a warrant. The issue here is much more subtle than that.
- rand4505 4y ago
  Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this really about the parallel construction that was going on while this was allowed?
  - tptacek 4y ago
    This is about the reauthorization of all of Section 702, which is the statute that allows the IC to compel US providers to provide information about foreign surveillance targets on foreign soil.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- smolder 4y ago
  They collect data on Americans domestically, too, then just play a stupid word game where they claim it's not "collecting" until they actually query their pile of data on you, which is ridiculous.
BLKNSLVR 4y ago
From all that I've read, anything saying "NSA asks" feels like pure window dressing. The NSA does whatever it wants if it has the technical ability. That should be factored in by now.
- sysadm1n 4y ago
  > The NSA does whatever it wants Whilst true, they want to be seen as angelic since they're following some laws. Can't be inferring people's pattern of life based of smartphone metadata without been seen as 'the good guys'!
akira2501 4y ago
> No real warrant has ever been required... I see this as a consequence of monopolization of the sector, it's made it significantly easier to turn these few corporations into de facto wings of their organization. The conspiratorially minded wonder if they had a hand in forming the monopolies in the first place.
- tehwebguy 4y ago
  It’s further upstream, the monopolization of telecom. Lot of talk about Snowden since his big drop but the whistleblowing from Mark Klein in 2006 is at least just as big of a deal > Mark Klein is a former AT&T technician and whistleblower who revealed details of the company's cooperation with the United States National Security Agency in installing network hardware at a site known as Room 641A to monitor, capture and process American telecommunications. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein
- kmeisthax 4y ago
  The death of antitrust law in the US can be tied directly to a bunch of federal judges that practically nullified it with the "consumer welfare" excuse decades ago. Modern tech companies are constructed to maximally exploit this loophole. The CIA also has In-Q-Tel to fund tech companies and develop surveillance tech. I believe Facebook got some seed money off them early on but their Wikipedia article doesn't list them. Neither of these are tied together in an obvious way, though. Like, the government doesn't directly create monopolies to obfuscate surveillance; in the world where we had hundreds of viable tech platforms and maximum ownership caps, we'd still have surveillance. Because the government is itself a monopoly. But they prefer working with monopolies because they're easier to regulate and comply with the law more. And monopolies also improve the economy, the failure of which is the number one killer of politicians.
shapefrog 4y ago
> why would anyone believe they ever stopped They didnt, congress authorised then reauthorised the programme and are going to reauthorise it again.

At this point, why would anyone believe they ever stopped? No real warrant has ever been required...

tremon 4y ago

Has anyone been held accountable for the previous transgressions?

adastra22 4y ago
Only the guy who revealed that transgressions were going on.
- godelski 4y ago
  I'm guessing you're referring to Snowden, but there are plenty of others like Reality Winner that have gone to jail (Reality got the longest sentence ever for this type of crime). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner
- edgyquant 4y ago
  Those transgressions were revealed by PBS a couple of years before.
CWuestefeld 4y ago
Has the government ever been held accountable for previous transgressions?
CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
https://hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com/ https://hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com/

tptacek 4y ago

It's not the premise of the article that it ever had. The IC has, and always has had, the broad authority to collect information on foreign nationals abroad, without a warrant. The issue here is much more subtle than that.

rand4505 4y ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this really about the parallel construction that was going on while this was allowed?
- tptacek 4y ago
  This is about the reauthorization of all of Section 702, which is the statute that allows the IC to compel US providers to provide information about foreign surveillance targets on foreign soil.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
smolder 4y ago
They collect data on Americans domestically, too, then just play a stupid word game where they claim it's not "collecting" until they actually query their pile of data on you, which is ridiculous.

BLKNSLVR 4y ago

From all that I've read, anything saying "NSA asks" feels like pure window dressing. The NSA does whatever it wants if it has the technical ability. That should be factored in by now.

sysadm1n 4y ago
> The NSA does whatever it wants Whilst true, they want to be seen as angelic since they're following some laws. Can't be inferring people's pattern of life based of smartphone metadata without been seen as 'the good guys'!

akira2501 4y ago

> No real warrant has ever been required... I see this as a consequence of monopolization of the sector, it's made it significantly easier to turn these few corporations into de facto wings of their organization. The conspiratorially minded wonder if they had a hand in forming the monopolies in the first place.

tehwebguy 4y ago
It’s further upstream, the monopolization of telecom. Lot of talk about Snowden since his big drop but the whistleblowing from Mark Klein in 2006 is at least just as big of a deal > Mark Klein is a former AT&T technician and whistleblower who revealed details of the company's cooperation with the United States National Security Agency in installing network hardware at a site known as Room 641A to monitor, capture and process American telecommunications. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein
kmeisthax 4y ago
The death of antitrust law in the US can be tied directly to a bunch of federal judges that practically nullified it with the "consumer welfare" excuse decades ago. Modern tech companies are constructed to maximally exploit this loophole. The CIA also has In-Q-Tel to fund tech companies and develop surveillance tech. I believe Facebook got some seed money off them early on but their Wikipedia article doesn't list them. Neither of these are tied together in an obvious way, though. Like, the government doesn't directly create monopolies to obfuscate surveillance; in the world where we had hundreds of viable tech platforms and maximum ownership caps, we'd still have surveillance. Because the government is itself a monopoly. But they prefer working with monopolies because they're easier to regulate and comply with the law more. And monopolies also improve the economy, the failure of which is the number one killer of politicians.

shapefrog 4y ago

> why would anyone believe they ever stopped They didnt, congress authorised then reauthorised the programme and are going to reauthorise it again.