4 ms·

Personally, my time in my car is some of the only pure "me" time I have, and I would hazard a guess that it is the same for many others. A car to me is a perso

Personally, my time in my car is some of the only pure "me" time I have, and I would hazard a guess that it is the same for many others. A car to me is a personal, climate controlled cocoon, where I can turn on whatever music I want, have a coffee or a snack, and escape for the 30 minutes or however long it takes to reach my destination...without the chance of being bothered by anyone else, much less any of the other belligerents that you are sure to find on public transit from time to time. I will continue to own and drive my own car for this simple fact...

VBprogrammer 4y ago
I love driving as much as the next person but being on the roads at commuting time is hell on earth. Battling all of the other sleep deprived idiots to travel 3 miles in an hour. It's awful.
- dzikimarian 4y ago
  For me it's 15 minutes in pretty relaxed traffic and music/audiobook. Garage to office door + easy detour to shop if necessary. In the summer bike is nice alternative, but during bad weather there's nothing comparable to the comfort of car. Please remember not everyone lives in bay area with long commute and mild weather all year long :-)
  - michaelteter 4y ago
    The article was about that person's reality of 230km round trip commute each day, and the discussion was related. A 15min commute as you have is a different situation (much better!). Nobody is trying to take away your car. I realize that it is often framed that way in US media, as if the options are public transport OR private cars. I have a car in the Netherlands which I use for some trips where public transport is not the better choice. But when possible, especially when going from one major city to another, public transport is such a nice luxury. (It also means I can go have fun at that late night party and never face the decision of whether to drive somewhat inebriated or not.)
    - dzikimarian 4y ago
      Well I met guy on HN, who was adamant that bike is always the right choice, as long as you dress properly. Given recent 30cm of snow, then melted by rain I kinda disagree :-) But yes, if we try to complement them, not just ban, this is very reasonable. I also travel by train quite often because it's simply very convenient compared to car.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  The people doing 151km trips aren't doing that. They're only spending the "busy" end of their trips under those conditions.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
otikik 4y ago
> without the chance of being bothered by anyone else They can still crash into you. Belligerance also exist behind the wheel, and it can can kill you.
lancewiggs 4y ago
However this personal decision comes at a tremendous cost to the rest of society, and we are not pricing that correctly.
xracy 4y ago
Okay, but what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I get it might not be exactly the same, but walking/biking/Public Transiting with headphones in for a period of time is all that and more. And with the exception of a bike, you can do all of those things without having to sit in traffic...
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  > what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I think GP's point is that it's more about space than about travel. Walking, or being on a public transport with headphones on, doesn't replace that - it's at most a very poor substitute. The point is to be able to hide from other people - to have some minimum personal time, in a personal space, free from nagging and expectations of your spouse, children, friends, co-workers and bosses. Driving in a car to work enables this, because for the duration of your commute, you can ignore everyone's calls and requests guilt-free. It's the law that says you can't pick up a phone on the road. It's dangerous. You're also not driving for fun, you're driving to/from work. Nobody can have any expectations of you during that time. Yes, commute in traffic is torture. That's a feature. It gives you plausible deniability. I may be breaking some unwritten fight club rule by spelling it out loud. Sorry. Also, I don't drive - to work or otherwise. But to the extent what I described above is a major part of car ownership, more and better public transport won't help, because it doesn't address this major part.
  - michaelteter 4y ago
    This still smells like some greater problem. If retreating into our own private cars, solo, is the only way we can get some solitude and space from others, then we have painted ourselves into a corner. Long ago I briefly shared an office with an "old guy" - an expert in a particular topic which gave him more freedom to behave strangely and not get fired. His strange behavior was to spend half of his lunch hour at his desk, leaned back, mouth wide open, napping. That was traditionally not acceptable behavior in a professional environment, but he apparently decided it was for him. So he did it. While it was a bit of a shock at first to the other employees, eventually we all became accustomed to it and even kept our voices down in the hallway outside when we new it was his nap time. The point is that we have the freedom, even if it seems scary, to make some decisions about how we want our lives and how to get the balance we need. I am only just starting to learn how to do this. The commute drive solo time is clearly not the same quality of solo time as many other options (choose your favorite). When I had young children and a busy house, and my normal full time job, the bathroom was my solo space. Unsurprisingly, people didn't seem too interested to come bother me when I was in there. So I would read entire books while seeking solitude. Instead, it is conceivable that I could have just gathered everyone and made some agreements about what we all need, including sometimes privacy and quiet. Granted, a toddler will not respect those agreements, but the spouse can help ensure it works most of the time.
michaelteter 4y ago
> Personally, my time in my car is some of the only pure "me" time I have, and I would hazard a guess that it is the same for many others. I totally get this, and I was in the same situation for many years (the young children period of my life). However, imagine that instead of a 1hr commute, the commute was 30 minutes. Now your day has 1 hour "free" that you could choose to spend doing something for yourself. Maybe it's gym time, or maybe a music practice room in a building near your office, or yoga in the garden of the office rooftop. As I say, I did share that same feeling when I was doing the normal commute/family thing. But it still points to a problem. We should be able to find or make the time and space to have a cocoon of calm or whatever we need and still have a life+family+work. I don't think that a small side-effect of solo driving in traffic which provides something like that cocoon is at all the right way to get the life balance we need.

VBprogrammer 4y ago

I love driving as much as the next person but being on the roads at commuting time is hell on earth. Battling all of the other sleep deprived idiots to travel 3 miles in an hour. It's awful.

dzikimarian 4y ago
For me it's 15 minutes in pretty relaxed traffic and music/audiobook. Garage to office door + easy detour to shop if necessary. In the summer bike is nice alternative, but during bad weather there's nothing comparable to the comfort of car. Please remember not everyone lives in bay area with long commute and mild weather all year long :-)
- michaelteter 4y ago
  The article was about that person's reality of 230km round trip commute each day, and the discussion was related. A 15min commute as you have is a different situation (much better!). Nobody is trying to take away your car. I realize that it is often framed that way in US media, as if the options are public transport OR private cars. I have a car in the Netherlands which I use for some trips where public transport is not the better choice. But when possible, especially when going from one major city to another, public transport is such a nice luxury. (It also means I can go have fun at that late night party and never face the decision of whether to drive somewhat inebriated or not.)
  - dzikimarian 4y ago
    Well I met guy on HN, who was adamant that bike is always the right choice, as long as you dress properly. Given recent 30cm of snow, then melted by rain I kinda disagree :-) But yes, if we try to complement them, not just ban, this is very reasonable. I also travel by train quite often because it's simply very convenient compared to car.
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
The people doing 151km trips aren't doing that. They're only spending the "busy" end of their trips under those conditions.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

otikik 4y ago

> without the chance of being bothered by anyone else They can still crash into you. Belligerance also exist behind the wheel, and it can can kill you.

lancewiggs 4y ago

However this personal decision comes at a tremendous cost to the rest of society, and we are not pricing that correctly.

xracy 4y ago

Okay, but what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I get it might not be exactly the same, but walking/biking/Public Transiting with headphones in for a period of time is all that and more. And with the exception of a bike, you can do all of those things without having to sit in traffic...

TeMPOraL 4y ago
> what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I think GP's point is that it's more about space than about travel. Walking, or being on a public transport with headphones on, doesn't replace that - it's at most a very poor substitute. The point is to be able to hide from other people - to have some minimum personal time, in a personal space, free from nagging and expectations of your spouse, children, friends, co-workers and bosses. Driving in a car to work enables this, because for the duration of your commute, you can ignore everyone's calls and requests guilt-free. It's the law that says you can't pick up a phone on the road. It's dangerous. You're also not driving for fun, you're driving to/from work. Nobody can have any expectations of you during that time. Yes, commute in traffic is torture. That's a feature. It gives you plausible deniability. I may be breaking some unwritten fight club rule by spelling it out loud. Sorry. Also, I don't drive - to work or otherwise. But to the extent what I described above is a major part of car ownership, more and better public transport won't help, because it doesn't address this major part.
- michaelteter 4y ago
  This still smells like some greater problem. If retreating into our own private cars, solo, is the only way we can get some solitude and space from others, then we have painted ourselves into a corner. Long ago I briefly shared an office with an "old guy" - an expert in a particular topic which gave him more freedom to behave strangely and not get fired. His strange behavior was to spend half of his lunch hour at his desk, leaned back, mouth wide open, napping. That was traditionally not acceptable behavior in a professional environment, but he apparently decided it was for him. So he did it. While it was a bit of a shock at first to the other employees, eventually we all became accustomed to it and even kept our voices down in the hallway outside when we new it was his nap time. The point is that we have the freedom, even if it seems scary, to make some decisions about how we want our lives and how to get the balance we need. I am only just starting to learn how to do this. The commute drive solo time is clearly not the same quality of solo time as many other options (choose your favorite). When I had young children and a busy house, and my normal full time job, the bathroom was my solo space. Unsurprisingly, people didn't seem too interested to come bother me when I was in there. So I would read entire books while seeking solitude. Instead, it is conceivable that I could have just gathered everyone and made some agreements about what we all need, including sometimes privacy and quiet. Granted, a toddler will not respect those agreements, but the spouse can help ensure it works most of the time.

michaelteter 4y ago

> Personally, my time in my car is some of the only pure "me" time I have, and I would hazard a guess that it is the same for many others. I totally get this, and I was in the same situation for many years (the young children period of my life). However, imagine that instead of a 1hr commute, the commute was 30 minutes. Now your day has 1 hour "free" that you could choose to spend doing something for yourself. Maybe it's gym time, or maybe a music practice room in a building near your office, or yoga in the garden of the office rooftop. As I say, I did share that same feeling when I was doing the normal commute/family thing. But it still points to a problem. We should be able to find or make the time and space to have a cocoon of calm or whatever we need and still have a life+family+work. I don't think that a small side-effect of solo driving in traffic which provides something like that cocoon is at all the right way to get the life balance we need.