9 ms·

This is not what i.e. GNOME are going for nowadays, everyone wants to reinvent the locked down iPhone "experience". So VERY much this. I don't want an "experie

This is not what i.e. GNOME are going for nowadays, everyone wants to reinvent the locked down iPhone "experience". So VERY much this. I don't want an "experience" that's curated and chosen for me. I want to decide for myself how my desktop is going to look, feel, and work. And that is why I use KDE over Gnome, etc. KDE doesn't assume I'm an idiot who needs all options hidden away, yadda, yadda.

isthisthingon99 4y ago
Most users don't care but yes it's nice for the market to have something like this.
- 5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
  IME they very much do care, they're simply not aware that a constantly changing user interface is not just something you have to deal with, like death or taxes. Every time I play tech support for friends and family it's the same story about how everything looks different yet again and how they can't find that thing that was right here just recently. (For myself I have cobbled together something that looks roughly like Windows 95 did decades ago, but doing that for others comes with its own problems, so not forcing that on anyone.)
  - zx8080 4y ago
    Did you try xfce with win95 theme? This works pretty stable, though not kde.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  Stop making homophobic and transphobic posts. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34402242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34402242
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - isthisthingon99 4y ago
    Bro you're weird. Are you really going through the entire post history lol.
    - DonHopkins 4y ago
      People go through your entire post history and criticize you for breaking the rules by posting your homophobic transphobic bullshit here, and you should expect it. Hacker News is not the place to spread your insults and hate speech, like Truth Social. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences, and when you post that kind of bullshit, one of the consequences is that people know you're an asshole. If you're embarrassed about people reading what you wrote, realizing what kind of a person you really are, and telling you what they think about it, then don't ask for it by trolling like Fred Flintstone and Archie Bunker. Grow up, and take responsibility for your own actions.
      - isthisthingon99 4y ago
        Man shut up
        DonHopkins 4y ago
        Obviously you can't counter or address any of my points, so now you concede and want to cut off the conversation that YOU started by inappropriately posting insulting homophobic and transphobic hate speech, because you can't even prove or justify your lies. So you stop making homophobic and transphobic posts and insults and lies, and then I will stop replying to your hate speech and insulting lies, reminding you that what you're doing is against the rules. Just why do you post idiotic close minded bullshit, then suddenly not want to talk about what YOU brought up, anyway? Is it because you can't justify it when questioned? Because your own words embarrass you and make you look like an asshole and a bully? Then stop posting that bullshit, if you are so afraid of answering my questions that you just want me to shut up because you know you will lose the argument! You posted the following bullshit, in your own words, that you can't defend: >"Because a few years ago they used that on gay marriage and they said no you will never have men dressed as women in libraries you're being silly." -isthisthingon99 Exactly who said "you will never have men dressed as women in libraries"? Can you provide a direct quote or citation, or are you just making that up and lying? If you can't prove that somebody actually said that, then retract it and apologize for lying, and don't post hate speech and lies you can't defend in the future. And explain what exactly is wrong with men dressing as women in libraries, or anywhere else? Do you also believe kids shouldn't watch Bugs Bunny or Mrs Doubtfire or The Nutty Professor either? Bugs Bunny was America’s first drag superstar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDKo4mOljkc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDKo4mOljkc Explain why are you so afraid of and hateful about trans and gay people (or cartoon rabbits, for that matter) that it drives you to lie and bully and humiliate yourself in public by posting indefensible hate speech and childish insults, like you do? How do they threaten or affect your life in any way at all? Or is it all about your own internalized homophobia, self loathing, and hatred of your own repressed feelings? Because real straight and cis people aren't terrified of and irrationally threatened by gay and trans people, like you obviously are. If you could justify your own bigoted beliefs, you would. So tell me to shut up again, if you have no better response, can't counter my points, and I'm correct about you lying and taking your own repressed self loathing out on other people who terrify you.
irthomasthomas 4y ago
KDE doesn't assume I'm an idiot who needs all options hidden away, yadda, yadda. Have you read KDE's new Human Interface Guidelines? Because that is exactly what they are doing, now. Make it easy to focus on what matters --- Remove or minimize elements not crucial to the primary or main task. Use spacing to keep things organized. Use color to draw attention. Reveal additional information or optional functions only when needed. I know how to do that! --- Make things easier to learn by reusing design patterns from other applications. Other applications that use good design are a precedent to follow. Do the heavy lifting for me --- Make complex tasks simple. Make novices feel like experts. Create ways in which your users can naturally feel empowered by your software. It looks like they are moving more and more toward a iphone/android like, dumbed-down experience. https://develop.kde.org/hig/ https://develop.kde.org/hig/
- mindcrime 4y ago
  Have you read KDE's new Human Interface Guidelines? No. Because that is exactly what they are doing, now. That is unfortunate. I'd hate to have to move off of KDE. It's been great up to this point.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    You don't have to. The OP is entirely misinterpreting the KDE HIG. If you want to see how actual KDE devs interpret it (rather than some random non-KDE user on a message forum), just go use the latest KDE. It isn't turning into Gnome.
    - mindcrime 4y ago
      I do use the latest KDE. I'm just saying that if they start making changes that go in the "let's dumb this down and start removing options" path, then I'll probably start looking at other options.
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        I don't see any evidence they're going to do that, including in the HIG quote the OP posted before. It said nothing about removing options, so any suggestion they are seems like scare-mongering to me.
lelanthran 4y ago
> KDE doesn't assume I'm an idiot who needs all options hidden away, yadda, yadda. You make it sound like Gnome assumes you're an "idiot who needs all the options to be hidden away". You couldn't be more wrong. Gnome assumes you're an normal "idiot", and then removes the options altogether. They aren't hidden, they're gone.
- mindcrime 4y ago
  Fair enough. I haven't touched Gnome in like 15+ years, so I'm not real familiar with the state of that system.
- squarefoot 4y ago
  Aren't they still accessible through the Dconf editor? Just asking, don't want to sound like it's a good thing to me: they started dumbing down the interface long time ago (between GTK2 and 3 if memory serves), and now they ruined it completely with the new design.
  - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
    Sometimes, but that's a finnicky beast in its own right. You need to figure out which poorly documented variable you need to change to do whatever, usually from a Stack Overflow post from some other poor fucker, then make heads and tails of system settings vs. user settings, the dbus nonsense for communication, the weird gconfig shit for fiddling with system files, etc. Doing something as simple as e.g. changing the image used on the login screen for all users is far more complex than it should be. I understand that GNOME has other goals than I do for my machine, but it's basically the antithesis of the reasons I choose to run Linux in the first place. I think it being the de facto "standard" Linux desktop environment is really hurting the ecosystem.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      >I think it being the de facto "standard" Linux desktop environment is really hurting the ecosystem. I completely agree. I think it's a case of moneyed interests having taken over. Someone in another HN comment a while back implied that the big reason for Gnome and its philosophy is Red Hat's big corporate and especially government customers. Why so many casual Linux users have jumped on the Gnome bandwagon I don't understand. If you want something that gives you no choice and tells you how to use your computer and is "simple", then just buy a Mac.

isthisthingon99 4y ago

Most users don't care but yes it's nice for the market to have something like this.

5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
IME they very much do care, they're simply not aware that a constantly changing user interface is not just something you have to deal with, like death or taxes. Every time I play tech support for friends and family it's the same story about how everything looks different yet again and how they can't find that thing that was right here just recently. (For myself I have cobbled together something that looks roughly like Windows 95 did decades ago, but doing that for others comes with its own problems, so not forcing that on anyone.)
- zx8080 4y ago
  Did you try xfce with win95 theme? This works pretty stable, though not kde.
DonHopkins 4y ago
Stop making homophobic and transphobic posts. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34402242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34402242
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- isthisthingon99 4y ago
  Bro you're weird. Are you really going through the entire post history lol.
  - DonHopkins 4y ago
    People go through your entire post history and criticize you for breaking the rules by posting your homophobic transphobic bullshit here, and you should expect it. Hacker News is not the place to spread your insults and hate speech, like Truth Social. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences, and when you post that kind of bullshit, one of the consequences is that people know you're an asshole. If you're embarrassed about people reading what you wrote, realizing what kind of a person you really are, and telling you what they think about it, then don't ask for it by trolling like Fred Flintstone and Archie Bunker. Grow up, and take responsibility for your own actions.
    - isthisthingon99 4y ago
      Man shut up
      - DonHopkins 4y ago
        Obviously you can't counter or address any of my points, so now you concede and want to cut off the conversation that YOU started by inappropriately posting insulting homophobic and transphobic hate speech, because you can't even prove or justify your lies. So you stop making homophobic and transphobic posts and insults and lies, and then I will stop replying to your hate speech and insulting lies, reminding you that what you're doing is against the rules. Just why do you post idiotic close minded bullshit, then suddenly not want to talk about what YOU brought up, anyway? Is it because you can't justify it when questioned? Because your own words embarrass you and make you look like an asshole and a bully? Then stop posting that bullshit, if you are so afraid of answering my questions that you just want me to shut up because you know you will lose the argument! You posted the following bullshit, in your own words, that you can't defend: >"Because a few years ago they used that on gay marriage and they said no you will never have men dressed as women in libraries you're being silly." -isthisthingon99 Exactly who said "you will never have men dressed as women in libraries"? Can you provide a direct quote or citation, or are you just making that up and lying? If you can't prove that somebody actually said that, then retract it and apologize for lying, and don't post hate speech and lies you can't defend in the future. And explain what exactly is wrong with men dressing as women in libraries, or anywhere else? Do you also believe kids shouldn't watch Bugs Bunny or Mrs Doubtfire or The Nutty Professor either? Bugs Bunny was America’s first drag superstar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDKo4mOljkc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDKo4mOljkc Explain why are you so afraid of and hateful about trans and gay people (or cartoon rabbits, for that matter) that it drives you to lie and bully and humiliate yourself in public by posting indefensible hate speech and childish insults, like you do? How do they threaten or affect your life in any way at all? Or is it all about your own internalized homophobia, self loathing, and hatred of your own repressed feelings? Because real straight and cis people aren't terrified of and irrationally threatened by gay and trans people, like you obviously are. If you could justify your own bigoted beliefs, you would. So tell me to shut up again, if you have no better response, can't counter my points, and I'm correct about you lying and taking your own repressed self loathing out on other people who terrify you.

irthomasthomas 4y ago

KDE doesn't assume I'm an idiot who needs all options hidden away, yadda, yadda. Have you read KDE's new Human Interface Guidelines? Because that is exactly what they are doing, now. Make it easy to focus on what matters --- Remove or minimize elements not crucial to the primary or main task. Use spacing to keep things organized. Use color to draw attention. Reveal additional information or optional functions only when needed. I know how to do that! --- Make things easier to learn by reusing design patterns from other applications. Other applications that use good design are a precedent to follow. Do the heavy lifting for me --- Make complex tasks simple. Make novices feel like experts. Create ways in which your users can naturally feel empowered by your software. It looks like they are moving more and more toward a iphone/android like, dumbed-down experience. https://develop.kde.org/hig/ https://develop.kde.org/hig/

mindcrime 4y ago
Have you read KDE's new Human Interface Guidelines? No. Because that is exactly what they are doing, now. That is unfortunate. I'd hate to have to move off of KDE. It's been great up to this point.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  You don't have to. The OP is entirely misinterpreting the KDE HIG. If you want to see how actual KDE devs interpret it (rather than some random non-KDE user on a message forum), just go use the latest KDE. It isn't turning into Gnome.
  - mindcrime 4y ago
    I do use the latest KDE. I'm just saying that if they start making changes that go in the "let's dumb this down and start removing options" path, then I'll probably start looking at other options.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      I don't see any evidence they're going to do that, including in the HIG quote the OP posted before. It said nothing about removing options, so any suggestion they are seems like scare-mongering to me.

lelanthran 4y ago

> KDE doesn't assume I'm an idiot who needs all options hidden away, yadda, yadda. You make it sound like Gnome assumes you're an "idiot who needs all the options to be hidden away". You couldn't be more wrong. Gnome assumes you're an normal "idiot", and then removes the options altogether. They aren't hidden, they're gone.

mindcrime 4y ago
Fair enough. I haven't touched Gnome in like 15+ years, so I'm not real familiar with the state of that system.
squarefoot 4y ago
Aren't they still accessible through the Dconf editor? Just asking, don't want to sound like it's a good thing to me: they started dumbing down the interface long time ago (between GTK2 and 3 if memory serves), and now they ruined it completely with the new design.
- AngriestLettuce 4y ago
  Sometimes, but that's a finnicky beast in its own right. You need to figure out which poorly documented variable you need to change to do whatever, usually from a Stack Overflow post from some other poor fucker, then make heads and tails of system settings vs. user settings, the dbus nonsense for communication, the weird gconfig shit for fiddling with system files, etc. Doing something as simple as e.g. changing the image used on the login screen for all users is far more complex than it should be. I understand that GNOME has other goals than I do for my machine, but it's basically the antithesis of the reasons I choose to run Linux in the first place. I think it being the de facto "standard" Linux desktop environment is really hurting the ecosystem.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >I think it being the de facto "standard" Linux desktop environment is really hurting the ecosystem. I completely agree. I think it's a case of moneyed interests having taken over. Someone in another HN comment a while back implied that the big reason for Gnome and its philosophy is Red Hat's big corporate and especially government customers. Why so many casual Linux users have jumped on the Gnome bandwagon I don't understand. If you want something that gives you no choice and tells you how to use your computer and is "simple", then just buy a Mac.