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I am personally very perplexed with KDE. Many Linux users hate GNOME. Sure, it’s not that customizable, and looks like it was made for the smartphone generatio

I am personally very perplexed with KDE. Many Linux users hate GNOME. Sure, it’s not that customizable, and looks like it was made for the smartphone generation. But… I cannot deny that it is very, very polished visually and is much more familiar to people who aren’t as good at computers. If I was building Linux computers for poor people at a charity shop, I would use GNOME. KDE… it is just so customizable, almost to a fault. System Settings can be mentally overwhelming - and why does every app have to start with the letter K? Also, whereas GNOME is content with generic names like “Web” and “PDF Viewer,” I’m just supposed to know Okular is my PDF viewer?

unsafecast 4y ago
If I have two PDF viewers, should both be called "PDF viewer"? Gnome seems to love hiding the actual names (the gnome document viewer is actually called evince).
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  View it this way. If I’m a new user to Linux, KDE tends to come with far more apps than GNOME, with names that are often so opaque every app is a mystery. And not in a good way. “Oh… I thought Konquerer might be a video game, involving Conkers.”
  - rhn_mk1 4y ago
    You nailed it: GNOME targets new users. KDE doesn't. The advantage of having unique names is that you can actually talk about them, and that includes finding documentation and solving problems via a search engine. Try finding anythng useful when your query is based on a generic name, e.g. "document viewer crashes".
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
      > GNOME targets new users. Which is of course the correct strategy in the exploding-growth market of not only Linux Desktop, but desktop computing in general. ...wait a second...
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > Try finding anythng useful when your query is based on a generic name, e.g. "document viewer crashes". Gets tragically hilarious when the document viewer program changed between release.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - unsafecast 4y ago
    What about having it listed with the actual name, but when you're viewing it in the program launcher you have a hint in gray? Something like this: - Okular Document Viewer
    - RussianCow 4y ago
      This is roughly how it works now. Also, searching matches on its description.
      - unsafecast 4y ago
        Sounds good! I don't use either anymore so I wouldn't know.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    If only in the menu there was a description of what it does, written perhaps just under the name… oh… wait! THERE IS!
  - paul_funyun 4y ago
    Nobody that would be confused by this would ever use Konqueror. Chrome or Firefox, those are the choices.
  - ssnistfajen 4y ago
    Applications in every KDE system menu and search box result list have descriptors about what the application does that follow the application name. Didn't mean to be rude but it's honestly not hard to read the descriptor textsbefore clicking on something.
easton 4y ago
I have noticed in recent versions of KDE they put what the app actually is under the name, and the search seems to search those descriptions (like “Kate: text editor”). Still should probably consider renaming them by default, but without context on macOS I don’t know how you’d know “Safari” is the web browser.
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  You can actually choose whether you want to show application names, their descriptions or both. It's pretty annoying when you have GNOME apps installed too though, as those don't follow a sensible pattern and you get "Document Viewer (Okular)" next to "View multi-page documents (Document Viewer)" - which is Evince.
tssva 4y ago
I'm among those that don't like Gnome the desktop or project, but I do agree regarding the use of generic names vs having to know that Dolphin for some reason is the name of the file manager.
sz4kerto 4y ago
Gnome is the only Linux environment I know of (including DEs like KDE, window managers like Openbox and compositors like Sway) that support the TILED attribute (present in the monitor's EDID). So high-end displays like LG Ultrafine 5K, etc. can only be used at native resolution under Gnome. All the others handle it as two displays. :sad face:
hnlmorg 4y ago
With every OS racing to the bottom in terms of customisation and the genera dumbing of things down, I am immensely grateful that there are still some desktop environments out there who are willing to offer flexibility. I’ve tried a few different tiling and dynamic window managers. I even tried writing my own one. But in the end I actually do like the form factor of full desktop environment for when I’m doing graphical based work. And having a DE that doesn’t treat me like a n00b is an increasingly hard solution to find these days.
- jlpcsl 4y ago
  This are my feelings as well. Also race to the bottom for proprietary OSes includes much worse things such as them increasingly becoming what I would call spyware. The trands in closed OSes are terrible.
oriolid 4y ago
> is much more familiar to people who aren’t as good at computers I'm not sure about this. To me Gnome looks like it's a programmer's idea of what beginner-friendly UI looks like but actual non-technical users seem to think it's just confusing and switch back to Windows or MacOS. About generic names, I'm quite sure that Apple, Google and Microsoft did some research before they called their web browsers Safari and Chrome, or even renamed it from self-descriptive but unique Internet Explorer to Edge. Kubuntu did this generic names by default option at one point but fortunately there was an option to switch to proper nouns. Having three different apps called Web Browser was a bit odd, and at least to me the generic names give the feeling that the apps themselves are white label knockoff. But to be honest the 'k' everywhere convention feels like cheap house brand too.
LarryMullins 4y ago
> System Settings can be mentally overwhelming Either you and I are looking at a different "System Settings", or you get overwhelmed easily... The one I'm looking at is neatly organized into descriptive categories on the left, with a search function that searches all categories on the top. If I want to configure my mouse, I search "mouse". The mouse configuration screen has the following options: Left handed mode Press left and right buttons for middle-click Pointer speed Acceleration profile: Flat or Adaptive Invert scroll direction Far from overwhelming, I would say this is the bare minimum. I wish there was more. Why can I only choose between two acceleration profiles in this GUI? Why can't I tweak it? From the way you describe KDE, I should be able to tweak it. 90% of the configuration options KDE surfaces in the GUIs would have been standard fair for casual 'normie' computer users 15 years ago; it barely qualifies as a power user DE. Use `xinput list-props ...` to see the dozens of configuration options that KDE could expose in their mouse settings GUI, but doesn't. I really do wish KDE were actually the way people like you criticize KDE for being. > I’m just supposed to know Okular is my PDF viewer? How is "Okular" any worse than "mudbrick trapeeze artist" aka "adobe acrobat"? Click on a PDF and Okular opens it. That's how you know, and I think that's how most people open PDFs.
ankurdhama 4y ago
> I’m just supposed to know Okular is my PDF viewer People would just double click the PDF file and it will open in the PDF viewer.. not sure why would you want to know beforehand about what is the PDF viewer name. > If I was building Linux computers for poor people at a charity shop, I would use GNOME. These will be low powered computers. KDE's Kwin allows you to disable compositor, which is essential on low powered computers to make things not sluggish, GNOME's mutter doesn't allow that and it will feel very sluggish.

unsafecast 4y ago

If I have two PDF viewers, should both be called "PDF viewer"? Gnome seems to love hiding the actual names (the gnome document viewer is actually called evince).

gjsman-1000 4y ago
View it this way. If I’m a new user to Linux, KDE tends to come with far more apps than GNOME, with names that are often so opaque every app is a mystery. And not in a good way. “Oh… I thought Konquerer might be a video game, involving Conkers.”
- rhn_mk1 4y ago
  You nailed it: GNOME targets new users. KDE doesn't. The advantage of having unique names is that you can actually talk about them, and that includes finding documentation and solving problems via a search engine. Try finding anythng useful when your query is based on a generic name, e.g. "document viewer crashes".
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    > GNOME targets new users. Which is of course the correct strategy in the exploding-growth market of not only Linux Desktop, but desktop computing in general. ...wait a second...
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > Try finding anythng useful when your query is based on a generic name, e.g. "document viewer crashes". Gets tragically hilarious when the document viewer program changed between release.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- unsafecast 4y ago
  What about having it listed with the actual name, but when you're viewing it in the program launcher you have a hint in gray? Something like this: - Okular Document Viewer
  - RussianCow 4y ago
    This is roughly how it works now. Also, searching matches on its description.
    - unsafecast 4y ago
      Sounds good! I don't use either anymore so I wouldn't know.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  If only in the menu there was a description of what it does, written perhaps just under the name… oh… wait! THERE IS!
- paul_funyun 4y ago
  Nobody that would be confused by this would ever use Konqueror. Chrome or Firefox, those are the choices.
- ssnistfajen 4y ago
  Applications in every KDE system menu and search box result list have descriptors about what the application does that follow the application name. Didn't mean to be rude but it's honestly not hard to read the descriptor textsbefore clicking on something.

easton 4y ago

I have noticed in recent versions of KDE they put what the app actually is under the name, and the search seems to search those descriptions (like “Kate: text editor”). Still should probably consider renaming them by default, but without context on macOS I don’t know how you’d know “Safari” is the web browser.

seba_dos1 4y ago
You can actually choose whether you want to show application names, their descriptions or both. It's pretty annoying when you have GNOME apps installed too though, as those don't follow a sensible pattern and you get "Document Viewer (Okular)" next to "View multi-page documents (Document Viewer)" - which is Evince.

tssva 4y ago

I'm among those that don't like Gnome the desktop or project, but I do agree regarding the use of generic names vs having to know that Dolphin for some reason is the name of the file manager.

sz4kerto 4y ago

Gnome is the only Linux environment I know of (including DEs like KDE, window managers like Openbox and compositors like Sway) that support the TILED attribute (present in the monitor's EDID). So high-end displays like LG Ultrafine 5K, etc. can only be used at native resolution under Gnome. All the others handle it as two displays. :sad face:

hnlmorg 4y ago

With every OS racing to the bottom in terms of customisation and the genera dumbing of things down, I am immensely grateful that there are still some desktop environments out there who are willing to offer flexibility. I’ve tried a few different tiling and dynamic window managers. I even tried writing my own one. But in the end I actually do like the form factor of full desktop environment for when I’m doing graphical based work. And having a DE that doesn’t treat me like a n00b is an increasingly hard solution to find these days.

jlpcsl 4y ago
This are my feelings as well. Also race to the bottom for proprietary OSes includes much worse things such as them increasingly becoming what I would call spyware. The trands in closed OSes are terrible.

oriolid 4y ago

> is much more familiar to people who aren’t as good at computers I'm not sure about this. To me Gnome looks like it's a programmer's idea of what beginner-friendly UI looks like but actual non-technical users seem to think it's just confusing and switch back to Windows or MacOS. About generic names, I'm quite sure that Apple, Google and Microsoft did some research before they called their web browsers Safari and Chrome, or even renamed it from self-descriptive but unique Internet Explorer to Edge. Kubuntu did this generic names by default option at one point but fortunately there was an option to switch to proper nouns. Having three different apps called Web Browser was a bit odd, and at least to me the generic names give the feeling that the apps themselves are white label knockoff. But to be honest the 'k' everywhere convention feels like cheap house brand too.

LarryMullins 4y ago

> System Settings can be mentally overwhelming Either you and I are looking at a different "System Settings", or you get overwhelmed easily... The one I'm looking at is neatly organized into descriptive categories on the left, with a search function that searches all categories on the top. If I want to configure my mouse, I search "mouse". The mouse configuration screen has the following options: Left handed mode Press left and right buttons for middle-click Pointer speed Acceleration profile: Flat or Adaptive Invert scroll direction Far from overwhelming, I would say this is the bare minimum. I wish there was more. Why can I only choose between two acceleration profiles in this GUI? Why can't I tweak it? From the way you describe KDE, I should be able to tweak it. 90% of the configuration options KDE surfaces in the GUIs would have been standard fair for casual 'normie' computer users 15 years ago; it barely qualifies as a power user DE. Use `xinput list-props ...` to see the dozens of configuration options that KDE could expose in their mouse settings GUI, but doesn't. I really do wish KDE were actually the way people like you criticize KDE for being. > I’m just supposed to know Okular is my PDF viewer? How is "Okular" any worse than "mudbrick trapeeze artist" aka "adobe acrobat"? Click on a PDF and Okular opens it. That's how you know, and I think that's how most people open PDFs.

ankurdhama 4y ago

> I’m just supposed to know Okular is my PDF viewer People would just double click the PDF file and it will open in the PDF viewer.. not sure why would you want to know beforehand about what is the PDF viewer name. > If I was building Linux computers for poor people at a charity shop, I would use GNOME. These will be low powered computers. KDE's Kwin allows you to disable compositor, which is essential on low powered computers to make things not sluggish, GNOME's mutter doesn't allow that and it will feel very sluggish.