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HN taught me first hand on how horrible shadow banning is. You all tolerate this here so it's mighty hypocritical of you to criticize Bing. I'll say it again:

by _8j50 4y ago

HN taught me first hand on how horrible shadow banning is. You all tolerate this here so it's mighty hypocritical of you to criticize Bing. I'll say it again: It comes down to how you treat people. Treat others the way you want to be treated. No one wants to be shadowbanned and we can all agree it is a decidedly cowardly and cruel thing to do. And you can't use "quality" or anything short of being coerced as an excuse. Techniques and technologies to moderate people without shadowmodding at scale are mot just there but very well established. A site for technologists has no excuse to shadowmod other than elitism amorality.

_8j50 4y ago
Look at my post history and karma lol. I get exactly 3 karma and it gets hidden. I should do a line chart and post it somewhere outside HN lol.
maxbond 4y ago
HN's "shadow bans" aren't hidden and allow you to keep posting. Isn't that more tolerant than most other forms of banning? I have showdead turned on. I see fresh accounts that are automatically dead on each comment which are legit contributions, probably because they're using Tor or a widely abused VPN; that's the only common miscarriage of HN moderation I regularly see, and I vouch for house comments. Those accounts should be in the clear after a week or something like that. I have a couple comments I feel shouldn't be dead, but I can see how others would feel differently, and I have I believe 3 dead comments out of >3000 (many of which expressed views others vocally disagreed with, and I generally feel my views are not particularly popular on HN). But most of the dead comments I see are obviously harmful to discussion. The last time I saw hate speech from a banned HN account - was earlier today. What is it I'm missing here? It's all well and good to say, treat others as you'd like to be treated. But I don't want to be harassed either. So I forgo harassing people sure. But what's to be done about the people harassing me? Are you perhaps unaware of a phenomenon called the paradox of tolerance where, if you extend universal tolerance to everyone, including those who use their speech to silence others (through threats, harassment, shouting over people, poisoning the well, etc), you still end up with a forum in which not everyone can share their ideas?
- _8j50 4y ago
  Dead comments are not shadowbanned, just banned. I wasn't referring to that. And the problem with shadowmoderation is it happens without attempting to tell the person to change behavior so people who will cooperate don't get a chance to do that. If someone does not cooperate and acts with bad or false intentions you should ban them explicitly. I never suggested universal tolerance I only suggested transparent moderation.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    The only people I've seen get banned without warning are transparent trolls (usually people who make an account to make each comment, with that comment being trolling or hate speech, because they understand that that will be banned). People who aren't purely trolling do seem to get a public message from dang. Does your experience differ? How?

by _8j50 4y ago

_8j50 4y ago

Look at my post history and karma lol. I get exactly 3 karma and it gets hidden. I should do a line chart and post it somewhere outside HN lol.

maxbond 4y ago

HN's "shadow bans" aren't hidden and allow you to keep posting. Isn't that more tolerant than most other forms of banning? I have showdead turned on. I see fresh accounts that are automatically dead on each comment which are legit contributions, probably because they're using Tor or a widely abused VPN; that's the only common miscarriage of HN moderation I regularly see, and I vouch for house comments. Those accounts should be in the clear after a week or something like that. I have a couple comments I feel shouldn't be dead, but I can see how others would feel differently, and I have I believe 3 dead comments out of >3000 (many of which expressed views others vocally disagreed with, and I generally feel my views are not particularly popular on HN). But most of the dead comments I see are obviously harmful to discussion. The last time I saw hate speech from a banned HN account - was earlier today. What is it I'm missing here? It's all well and good to say, treat others as you'd like to be treated. But I don't want to be harassed either. So I forgo harassing people sure. But what's to be done about the people harassing me? Are you perhaps unaware of a phenomenon called the paradox of tolerance where, if you extend universal tolerance to everyone, including those who use their speech to silence others (through threats, harassment, shouting over people, poisoning the well, etc), you still end up with a forum in which not everyone can share their ideas?

_8j50 4y ago
Dead comments are not shadowbanned, just banned. I wasn't referring to that. And the problem with shadowmoderation is it happens without attempting to tell the person to change behavior so people who will cooperate don't get a chance to do that. If someone does not cooperate and acts with bad or false intentions you should ban them explicitly. I never suggested universal tolerance I only suggested transparent moderation.
- maxbond 4y ago
  The only people I've seen get banned without warning are transparent trolls (usually people who make an account to make each comment, with that comment being trolling or hate speech, because they understand that that will be banned). People who aren't purely trolling do seem to get a public message from dang. Does your experience differ? How?