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(I work at Stripe and live in Ireland.) This article is written about Irish pension schemes. The mechanic that the article is talking about is standard practice

by smca 4y ago

(I work at Stripe and live in Ireland.) This article is written about Irish pension schemes. The mechanic that the article is talking about is standard practice in Ireland. And, in particular, it only applies to contributions by Stripe for employees who have worked less than two years. Framing it as "clawing back" pension contributions is disingenuous (IMO). Stripe applied its stated pension plan policy. It would have been news if Stripe had deviated from its policy.

secfirstmd 4y ago
No it's not standard practice. It's done in some companies but not that many. For those firms that do this, most waive it for redundancies.
- Macha 4y ago
  In all four large tech companies I've worked for, and my father's factory job, this is the up front stated policy on pension contributions.
- anonymousiam 4y ago
  I've worked in a few places with similar policies. Lots of companies will match your 401k contributions (up to a limit), but the matching funds have a "vesting" period (typically a year or two). Stock options are often offered under similar terms. I don't see any reason for this article to exist other than to try to "shame" Stripe for doing what many other companies also do.
te_chris 4y ago
[flagged]
- pinkcan 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - NreItardGGERS 4y ago
    [dead]
the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
I’m not familiar with the Irish system but why is it standard practice to claw back contributions for people? What is the reason for enabling and doing this?
- Macha 4y ago
  Their tax-exempt status is conditional on the pension fund being in action for at least two years. If they're given to you without that, they're no longer tax-exempt pension contributions but employee income which has tax implications for both employee and employer.
  - orra 4y ago
    Yikes, that seems pretty horrendous law. In the the UK the tax exempt status comes from the fact you're locking away the income for, say, decades; and you'll be liable to normal income tax at the point of withdrawal. It's designed to encourage people to save money into their pensions, to make up for decades of the government underfunding social security pensions. It seems really shitty to make that tax break conditional on job security.
    - etothepii 4y ago
      Designed is a really strong word. The tax free nature of pension contributions come from the near impossibility of otherwise sensibly taxing annuities. How should a post tax annuity be calculated? The simplest annuities can probably be done (e.g. pay 100k and receive 6k a year til you die). But, if you paid tax on the full 6k that would mean that the 100k was being taxed again. However, tax none of it and that would see no tax on interest because it was being paid through an annuity. That's before one even starts thinking about spousal benefits or inflation linking.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    You get into some funny (and seemingly unfair) rules once tax exemption is involved. It's why you have limited rollover of unused FSA funds in the US--and the ability to rollover at all is relatively recent.
switch007 4y ago
Do you work in PR?
- SilasX 4y ago
  lol this is flagged (and I can't seem to vouch) but the parent is a PR employee of Stripe and didn't disclose that until challenged.
irmuda 4y ago
Perhaps it's worth disclosing you're on the company's PR / Comms team and run the @Stripe Twitter account?
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  Why? The comment says they work at Stripe and live in Ireland, and they're just relaying factual information. This is why I'm so wary of "tech press" news like this. Having a vesting schedule for employer contributions is pretty standard for a lot of countries, not just Ireland. So this has been going on for literally decades, all across the world, but it's only when a tech company does it that it is framed as "clawing back pension contributions". I'm not saying this doesn't suck for employees or shouldn't be legally changed, but why are people OK with this practice for literally decades until a tech unicorn does it?
  - zamadatix 4y ago
    Disclosures aren't about whether or not the statement is meant to be actually factual, the whole story, and moral it's about giving people the information they need to weigh when they consider if that's the case. It's reasonable to say a PR employee's response has a high likelihood of being more biased than a generic Stripe employee's response, or at least biased in a different direction. Again that doesn't mean the response is actually "wrong" or just a partial picture or what have you but it does mean many people appreciate considering the possibility of bias when trying to come to a full conclusion.
  - hklgny 4y ago
    Because they took the time to disclose the parts of their situation that supported the point they wanted to make (work at stripe, live in Ireland), but disregarded the parts they knew would discredit them a bit (PR for the company). Also, coming to their defense from a throw-away is a curious choice.
    - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
      > Also, coming to their defense from a throw-away is a curious choice. Yes, it's all a mass conspiracy!! https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=hn_throwaway_99 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=hn_throwaway_99
usea 4y ago
Things can be news to people even if they've been stated in a legal document somewhere.
- ergocoder 4y ago
  Not only it is legal, it is also a standard practice where everyone else is doing it. It is odd that Stripe is the only one who is criticized for it...
falcolas 4y ago
[flagged]
runamok 4y ago
The first tip off this was not in the US was the word "pension" which has long gone the way of the dodo bird in the US.

by smca 4y ago

secfirstmd 4y ago

No it's not standard practice. It's done in some companies but not that many. For those firms that do this, most waive it for redundancies.

Macha 4y ago
In all four large tech companies I've worked for, and my father's factory job, this is the up front stated policy on pension contributions.
anonymousiam 4y ago
I've worked in a few places with similar policies. Lots of companies will match your 401k contributions (up to a limit), but the matching funds have a "vesting" period (typically a year or two). Stock options are often offered under similar terms. I don't see any reason for this article to exist other than to try to "shame" Stripe for doing what many other companies also do.

te_chris 4y ago

[flagged]

pinkcan 4y ago
[flagged]
- NreItardGGERS 4y ago
  [dead]

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago

I’m not familiar with the Irish system but why is it standard practice to claw back contributions for people? What is the reason for enabling and doing this?

Macha 4y ago
Their tax-exempt status is conditional on the pension fund being in action for at least two years. If they're given to you without that, they're no longer tax-exempt pension contributions but employee income which has tax implications for both employee and employer.
- orra 4y ago
  Yikes, that seems pretty horrendous law. In the the UK the tax exempt status comes from the fact you're locking away the income for, say, decades; and you'll be liable to normal income tax at the point of withdrawal. It's designed to encourage people to save money into their pensions, to make up for decades of the government underfunding social security pensions. It seems really shitty to make that tax break conditional on job security.
  - etothepii 4y ago
    Designed is a really strong word. The tax free nature of pension contributions come from the near impossibility of otherwise sensibly taxing annuities. How should a post tax annuity be calculated? The simplest annuities can probably be done (e.g. pay 100k and receive 6k a year til you die). But, if you paid tax on the full 6k that would mean that the 100k was being taxed again. However, tax none of it and that would see no tax on interest because it was being paid through an annuity. That's before one even starts thinking about spousal benefits or inflation linking.
- ghaff 4y ago
  You get into some funny (and seemingly unfair) rules once tax exemption is involved. It's why you have limited rollover of unused FSA funds in the US--and the ability to rollover at all is relatively recent.

switch007 4y ago

Do you work in PR?

SilasX 4y ago
lol this is flagged (and I can't seem to vouch) but the parent is a PR employee of Stripe and didn't disclose that until challenged.

irmuda 4y ago

Perhaps it's worth disclosing you're on the company's PR / Comms team and run the @Stripe Twitter account?

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Why? The comment says they work at Stripe and live in Ireland, and they're just relaying factual information. This is why I'm so wary of "tech press" news like this. Having a vesting schedule for employer contributions is pretty standard for a lot of countries, not just Ireland. So this has been going on for literally decades, all across the world, but it's only when a tech company does it that it is framed as "clawing back pension contributions". I'm not saying this doesn't suck for employees or shouldn't be legally changed, but why are people OK with this practice for literally decades until a tech unicorn does it?
- zamadatix 4y ago
  Disclosures aren't about whether or not the statement is meant to be actually factual, the whole story, and moral it's about giving people the information they need to weigh when they consider if that's the case. It's reasonable to say a PR employee's response has a high likelihood of being more biased than a generic Stripe employee's response, or at least biased in a different direction. Again that doesn't mean the response is actually "wrong" or just a partial picture or what have you but it does mean many people appreciate considering the possibility of bias when trying to come to a full conclusion.
- hklgny 4y ago
  Because they took the time to disclose the parts of their situation that supported the point they wanted to make (work at stripe, live in Ireland), but disregarded the parts they knew would discredit them a bit (PR for the company). Also, coming to their defense from a throw-away is a curious choice.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    > Also, coming to their defense from a throw-away is a curious choice. Yes, it's all a mass conspiracy!! https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=hn_throwaway_99 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=hn_throwaway_99

usea 4y ago

Things can be news to people even if they've been stated in a legal document somewhere.

ergocoder 4y ago
Not only it is legal, it is also a standard practice where everyone else is doing it. It is odd that Stripe is the only one who is criticized for it...

falcolas 4y ago

[flagged]

runamok 4y ago

The first tip off this was not in the US was the word "pension" which has long gone the way of the dodo bird in the US.