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Performative legislation by the party you think would do such a thing but imagine if they actually passed it. What happens when it's illegal to buy the only ca

by luma 4y ago

Performative legislation by the party you think would do such a thing but imagine if they actually passed it. What happens when it's illegal to buy the only cars that are available for sale?

superkuh 4y ago
Definitely performative, just like the similar legislation by nation states and US states trying to make internal combustion cars illegal. California has the infrastructure and population all squeezed into valleys/coastlines combined with very temperate climate making it perfect for EVs. Wyoming has it's population spread out equally everywhere and has little EV infrastructure and terribly cold climate. But neither of these states should be trying to pass these silly laws just to highlight their respective situations.
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  California Ever been to LA? No, obviously. But I assure you the smog there is not "performative."
- hef19898 4y ago
  Doesn't matter, most big car OEMs are going to stop ICE production somewhere around he 2035 mark anyway, whether there are laws or not. Doesn't mean it illegal to own old ICE vehicles so, just that there won't any new ones being sold anymore.
  - rsj_hn 4y ago
    I very much doubt this will happen. Toyota announced it will continue to produce ICE cars, and other major manufacturers will walk back their vague "goals" once the utopian goals are revealed to be impractical. Or perhaps the goals will just keep getting pushed forward and there will be lip service paid to them during the annual Davos conferences. Several US automakers may not make it, though. They are long past their sell by date anyways, and will probably go out of business after abandoning ICE production.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Scroll down to the part of my below citation where each jurisdiction is identified with new combustion vehicle sales bans. This forces auto supply chains to reconfigure or die. Some jurisdictions might walk their bans back, but you only require a critical mass of the total addressable market to stick to it for it to remain effective. “As California goes, so goes the nation.” and all the jazz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehic...
      - rsj_hn 4y ago
        Scroll down to the part where something was actually enacted as opposed to being promised to be enacted long after the legislators leave office. These "plans", "pledges" are about as reliable as carbon net zero promises. It is purely performative. You may not have noticed, but carbon emissions keep going up. As does coal use [https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set-to-reach-a-new-high-in-2022-as-the-energy-crisis-shakes-markets https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set...]. But lets have another pledge, it will all be phased out in 2040! Also, the part about California leading the nation has stopped being true a long time ago. California is an object lesson in government dysfunction, wacky ideas, a crazy, utopian electorate that is disconnected from reality and a shrinking population as people flee to more sane jurisdictions where things actually work. It is by far the most hated state in the nation, and is generally used as a slur.
        toomuchtodo 4y ago
        California is the world’s fourth largest economy and has 12% of the US population (39 million compared to the 600k folks living in Wyoming). It’ll continue to be an economic powerhouse long after people complaining online about the state are gone. If complaining makes you feel better, do so, but it doesn’t change the facts. It’s certainly not going to hurt California [1]. Edit: I have never lived in California. [1] https://youtu.be/LlOSdRMSG_k https://youtu.be/LlOSdRMSG_k
        4y ago
  - oceanplexian 4y ago
    It will take several decades to upgrade the grid to handle EVs. Look at places like California where the grid can’t even keep up with air conditioners, and they want to charge tens of millions of cars with it? Building power plants and electric infrastructure takes decades. And if electricity is less reliable and more expensive than gasoline (which is what will inevitably happen in any market where demand is greater than supply), then there’s no economic incentive for anyone to buy EVs.
    - JKCalhoun 4y ago
      You may be right, but as I understand it, charging is cheaper if limited to the evening/night and demand on the grid is much, much lower.
      - Fatnino 4y ago
        When everyone is charging their cars at night demand will probably be higher than by day.
  - edmundsauto 4y ago
    The funny part is that Wyoming is too small a market to change automakers strategy. If they enacted this, It would result in their citizens just not being able to buy new cars in 15 years.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Combustion emissions are terrible in California due to them being held over population centers, caused by mountain geography and prevailing winds. It makes sense for them to encourage EV uptake and outlaw new combustion vehicle sales. Air pollution kills, this science is settled. They also, on average, generate roughly half of their daily electrical demands from solar (per CAISO and ElectricityMap.org). Wyoming has no excuse. It’s willful ignorance attempting to protect a dying industry. They’re attempting the same with their coal industry, so it’s not unexpected, just disappointing. https://trib.com/business/energy/demand-for-wyoming-coal-is-collapsing-seismic-changes-are-ahead-for-the-state/article_c1c779b4-8de4-11ed-8e53-a76dd4b949a4.html https://trib.com/business/energy/demand-for-wyoming-coal-is-...
- alexose 4y ago
  The situations are quite different. For one, California's laws do actually influence the auto manufacturing sector. They're typically the tip of the spear when it comes to things like emissions standards. Because the state represents such a big part of the auto buying market, it's usually easier for manufacturers to go along with the regulations (rather than introducing separate supply chains for vehicles sold in various states).
klyrs 4y ago
> What happens when it's illegal to buy the only cars that are available for sale? Wyoming will start to look like Cuba: people will drive antiques, and local machinists will crop up to reproduce out-of-stock parts. They've got oil, so presumably they could even maintain their own gasoline supply through corporate welfare. As the second least-populous (people per square mile) state in the union, I think they could even pull it off. Richer Wyomingians will be able to buy electric cars out of state, but if it gets that far, I suspect such a choice would bear substantial physical risk even driving around in one (which is already a nuisance in some places).
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  Or more likely after eighteen to twenty-four months of Rugged Individualism (TM) everyone will get sick of going against the flow and change the law.
- slfisher 4y ago
  I would expect Wyoming residents to have problems with electric cars anyway, due to a lack of charging stations (and I wouldn't be surprised to see vandalism). I don't live in Wyoming, but I used to live in Idaho, and the mentality is similar.

by luma 4y ago

Performative legislation by the party you think would do such a thing but imagine if they actually passed it. What happens when it's illegal to buy the only cars that are available for sale?

superkuh 4y ago

Definitely performative, just like the similar legislation by nation states and US states trying to make internal combustion cars illegal. California has the infrastructure and population all squeezed into valleys/coastlines combined with very temperate climate making it perfect for EVs. Wyoming has it's population spread out equally everywhere and has little EV infrastructure and terribly cold climate. But neither of these states should be trying to pass these silly laws just to highlight their respective situations.

JohnBooty 4y ago
California Ever been to LA? No, obviously. But I assure you the smog there is not "performative."
hef19898 4y ago
Doesn't matter, most big car OEMs are going to stop ICE production somewhere around he 2035 mark anyway, whether there are laws or not. Doesn't mean it illegal to own old ICE vehicles so, just that there won't any new ones being sold anymore.
- rsj_hn 4y ago
  I very much doubt this will happen. Toyota announced it will continue to produce ICE cars, and other major manufacturers will walk back their vague "goals" once the utopian goals are revealed to be impractical. Or perhaps the goals will just keep getting pushed forward and there will be lip service paid to them during the annual Davos conferences. Several US automakers may not make it, though. They are long past their sell by date anyways, and will probably go out of business after abandoning ICE production.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Scroll down to the part of my below citation where each jurisdiction is identified with new combustion vehicle sales bans. This forces auto supply chains to reconfigure or die. Some jurisdictions might walk their bans back, but you only require a critical mass of the total addressable market to stick to it for it to remain effective. “As California goes, so goes the nation.” and all the jazz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehic...
    - rsj_hn 4y ago
      Scroll down to the part where something was actually enacted as opposed to being promised to be enacted long after the legislators leave office. These "plans", "pledges" are about as reliable as carbon net zero promises. It is purely performative. You may not have noticed, but carbon emissions keep going up. As does coal use [https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set-to-reach-a-new-high-in-2022-as-the-energy-crisis-shakes-markets https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set...]. But lets have another pledge, it will all be phased out in 2040! Also, the part about California leading the nation has stopped being true a long time ago. California is an object lesson in government dysfunction, wacky ideas, a crazy, utopian electorate that is disconnected from reality and a shrinking population as people flee to more sane jurisdictions where things actually work. It is by far the most hated state in the nation, and is generally used as a slur.
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        California is the world’s fourth largest economy and has 12% of the US population (39 million compared to the 600k folks living in Wyoming). It’ll continue to be an economic powerhouse long after people complaining online about the state are gone. If complaining makes you feel better, do so, but it doesn’t change the facts. It’s certainly not going to hurt California [1]. Edit: I have never lived in California. [1] https://youtu.be/LlOSdRMSG_k https://youtu.be/LlOSdRMSG_k
        4y ago
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  It will take several decades to upgrade the grid to handle EVs. Look at places like California where the grid can’t even keep up with air conditioners, and they want to charge tens of millions of cars with it? Building power plants and electric infrastructure takes decades. And if electricity is less reliable and more expensive than gasoline (which is what will inevitably happen in any market where demand is greater than supply), then there’s no economic incentive for anyone to buy EVs.
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    You may be right, but as I understand it, charging is cheaper if limited to the evening/night and demand on the grid is much, much lower.
    - Fatnino 4y ago
      When everyone is charging their cars at night demand will probably be higher than by day.
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  The funny part is that Wyoming is too small a market to change automakers strategy. If they enacted this, It would result in their citizens just not being able to buy new cars in 15 years.
toomuchtodo 4y ago
Combustion emissions are terrible in California due to them being held over population centers, caused by mountain geography and prevailing winds. It makes sense for them to encourage EV uptake and outlaw new combustion vehicle sales. Air pollution kills, this science is settled. They also, on average, generate roughly half of their daily electrical demands from solar (per CAISO and ElectricityMap.org). Wyoming has no excuse. It’s willful ignorance attempting to protect a dying industry. They’re attempting the same with their coal industry, so it’s not unexpected, just disappointing. https://trib.com/business/energy/demand-for-wyoming-coal-is-collapsing-seismic-changes-are-ahead-for-the-state/article_c1c779b4-8de4-11ed-8e53-a76dd4b949a4.html https://trib.com/business/energy/demand-for-wyoming-coal-is-...
alexose 4y ago
The situations are quite different. For one, California's laws do actually influence the auto manufacturing sector. They're typically the tip of the spear when it comes to things like emissions standards. Because the state represents such a big part of the auto buying market, it's usually easier for manufacturers to go along with the regulations (rather than introducing separate supply chains for vehicles sold in various states).

klyrs 4y ago

> What happens when it's illegal to buy the only cars that are available for sale? Wyoming will start to look like Cuba: people will drive antiques, and local machinists will crop up to reproduce out-of-stock parts. They've got oil, so presumably they could even maintain their own gasoline supply through corporate welfare. As the second least-populous (people per square mile) state in the union, I think they could even pull it off. Richer Wyomingians will be able to buy electric cars out of state, but if it gets that far, I suspect such a choice would bear substantial physical risk even driving around in one (which is already a nuisance in some places).

ElfinTrousers 4y ago
Or more likely after eighteen to twenty-four months of Rugged Individualism (TM) everyone will get sick of going against the flow and change the law.
slfisher 4y ago
I would expect Wyoming residents to have problems with electric cars anyway, due to a lack of charging stations (and I wouldn't be surprised to see vandalism). I don't live in Wyoming, but I used to live in Idaho, and the mentality is similar.