4 ms·

Is it even a ban? Your followers can still see it. People that don't follow that go to your profile can still see it. Elon says no one has the right to "freedom

Is it even a ban? Your followers can still see it. People that don't follow that go to your profile can still see it. Elon says no one has the right to "freedom of reach" but never describes this concept as a ban.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Jensson 4y ago
If you get delisted from search and don't show up on exact match searches then I'd say that they banned you in some way. That is what Twitter does and what Bing did here. We call what Twitter does "shadow ban" since they still show you to yourself, to people subscribing to you and people with a direct link, but nobody else can find you, it isn't a total shadow ban but they are doing something very similar to a shadow ban. What shall we call that instead, "bubble ban", since it is like a shadow ban for specific bubbles and for everyone else it is as if that bubble never existed on the site?
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  There is no such thing as a total or less than total shadow ban. If you are visible with anyone with a direct link you aren't shadow banned it Bubble ban is also poor verbiage because not appearing in anyone's feed or search results is the default condition not inherently a punishment or redaction. A search is inherently a selection process and it's perfectly valid to say some content isn't fit to appear anywhere in a listing. I like reddits choice of "quarantined"
  - Jensson 4y ago
    > I like reddits choice of "quarantined" It isn't the same at all, since Reddit tells you about it and it still shows up in search etc. Shadow quarantined, yeah that works. The word "shadow" comes from not telling the user that anything is different, and Twitter doesn't tell you when this happens, it just delists your posts from everywhere except your followers. Anyway, it is extremely disingenuous to say that Twitter doesn't shadow ban. Consider this scenario: Person A is shadow moderated by Twitter, has a friend B. A replies to B's tweet, but his friend doesn't follow him, they just talk. And now B will never see A's tweet, and A has no idea that B can't see it, and neither do B, both thinks that they can see each other. What is this if not "shadow banned"? Twitter makes these people post things thinking it will be seen, but it wont, wasting their time and potentially hurting their mental health since nobody responds. For all intents and purposes this is "shadow banning", when you hurt people like this but say that you absolutely don't shadow ban you are so dishonest that I'd still call it a lie.
  - cactusplant7374 4y ago
    Reddit also shadow bans new accounts. You won't realize it until you open your user profile link in incognito.
- 3np 4y ago
  > What shall we call that instead Deindexed/delisted. Same as we called it before "shadow ban" was widely known as a term.
  - Jensson 4y ago
    Delisted would imply that you wouldn't see your listing yourself, or that when you try to post a new listing they would stop you. Shadow banning is when you post to a listing, it says that your listing was successfully posted, but it wasn't really posted. Twitter does that, it doesn't tell you that what you post wont be reached by the people you are posting to. Most people don't have many followers, they just reply to tweets and those replies will show up for the original tweeters. Twitter shadow banning you means that the items you post no longer shows up as responses. Sure the small subset that follows you can still see them, but 99.99999% of twitter wont see it, so it is a 99.99999% of a shadow ban. If they told you that any of this happened anywhere it wouldn't be a shadow ban.
    - 3np 4y ago
      > Delisted would imply that you wouldn't see your listing yourself, or that when you try to post a new listing they would stop you. It does not. Delisting = removed from list. Deindexed: removed from index. Banning implies denying access. There's an important distinction there with Twitter (user authenticates and publishes through Twitter) vs Google Search (indexes public sites). If Google silently stops showing your Google Ads and doesn't inform you, that would be more appropriately described as "shadow banning". There's no "user" or "account" in a web search engine so the term doesn't really fit.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Jensson 4y ago

If you get delisted from search and don't show up on exact match searches then I'd say that they banned you in some way. That is what Twitter does and what Bing did here. We call what Twitter does "shadow ban" since they still show you to yourself, to people subscribing to you and people with a direct link, but nobody else can find you, it isn't a total shadow ban but they are doing something very similar to a shadow ban. What shall we call that instead, "bubble ban", since it is like a shadow ban for specific bubbles and for everyone else it is as if that bubble never existed on the site?

michaelmrose 4y ago
There is no such thing as a total or less than total shadow ban. If you are visible with anyone with a direct link you aren't shadow banned it Bubble ban is also poor verbiage because not appearing in anyone's feed or search results is the default condition not inherently a punishment or redaction. A search is inherently a selection process and it's perfectly valid to say some content isn't fit to appear anywhere in a listing. I like reddits choice of "quarantined"
- Jensson 4y ago
  > I like reddits choice of "quarantined" It isn't the same at all, since Reddit tells you about it and it still shows up in search etc. Shadow quarantined, yeah that works. The word "shadow" comes from not telling the user that anything is different, and Twitter doesn't tell you when this happens, it just delists your posts from everywhere except your followers. Anyway, it is extremely disingenuous to say that Twitter doesn't shadow ban. Consider this scenario: Person A is shadow moderated by Twitter, has a friend B. A replies to B's tweet, but his friend doesn't follow him, they just talk. And now B will never see A's tweet, and A has no idea that B can't see it, and neither do B, both thinks that they can see each other. What is this if not "shadow banned"? Twitter makes these people post things thinking it will be seen, but it wont, wasting their time and potentially hurting their mental health since nobody responds. For all intents and purposes this is "shadow banning", when you hurt people like this but say that you absolutely don't shadow ban you are so dishonest that I'd still call it a lie.
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  Reddit also shadow bans new accounts. You won't realize it until you open your user profile link in incognito.
3np 4y ago
> What shall we call that instead Deindexed/delisted. Same as we called it before "shadow ban" was widely known as a term.
- Jensson 4y ago
  Delisted would imply that you wouldn't see your listing yourself, or that when you try to post a new listing they would stop you. Shadow banning is when you post to a listing, it says that your listing was successfully posted, but it wasn't really posted. Twitter does that, it doesn't tell you that what you post wont be reached by the people you are posting to. Most people don't have many followers, they just reply to tweets and those replies will show up for the original tweeters. Twitter shadow banning you means that the items you post no longer shows up as responses. Sure the small subset that follows you can still see them, but 99.99999% of twitter wont see it, so it is a 99.99999% of a shadow ban. If they told you that any of this happened anywhere it wouldn't be a shadow ban.
  - 3np 4y ago
    > Delisted would imply that you wouldn't see your listing yourself, or that when you try to post a new listing they would stop you. It does not. Delisting = removed from list. Deindexed: removed from index. Banning implies denying access. There's an important distinction there with Twitter (user authenticates and publishes through Twitter) vs Google Search (indexes public sites). If Google silently stops showing your Google Ads and doesn't inform you, that would be more appropriately described as "shadow banning". There's no "user" or "account" in a web search engine so the term doesn't really fit.