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Elon wants to redefine the term as well but for the purpose of a coordinated witch hunt. People like using shadow ban because it sounds more malicious vs. conte

Elon wants to redefine the term as well but for the purpose of a coordinated witch hunt. People like using shadow ban because it sounds more malicious vs. content that is no longer actively promoted by a company. It's hard to claim you're a victim if the reason is you're just not that interesting or popular.

extheat 4y ago
Well if you are silently placed on a hide list (by manual human intervention without you being able to know without a third party), then by all means that is a shadow ban. Edit for clarity.
- causality0 4y ago
  "Shadow ban" would be a good term to use for that if it didn't already have a meaning that was different. But it does.
  - extheat 4y ago
    Hence why I said silently. If I’m posting something and it appears to me as usual on my feed but not others, by all means that’s a shadow ban.
    - InspiredIdiot 4y ago
      Nope. Still wrong. I understand there is some way it feels like that from your perspective but DDG and Bing don't own your feed. So they are hiding nothing from you. They are 100% ~up-front~ (edit) consistent about not choosing to show your site (ban it) and the fact that they don't control your feed doesn't make it any more accurate to apply the word "shadow" to their ban.
      - InspiredIdiot 4y ago
        I have become what I hate most. Someone who didn't read the article. I've heard too many instances of the term being misapplied and jumped to a conclusion based on the discussion. If you use Bing webmaster tools (a logged-in account for the use of the domain owner/content creator) and you can see indications that Bing indexed the content and no indications that errors preventing it from being eligible to show then it is certainly at least closer to a shadow ban than I originally thought. Still, any reference to a "feed" entirely misses the point unless Bing is the one also serving that feed. I can't see any evidence that Bing displays a feed to the poster.
- colanderman 4y ago
  No, a shadow ban specifically is designed to mislead you into thinking you are not banned, to delay you attempting to work around the ban. Regardless of whether you were notified, if you can see that you are banned, it is by definition not a shadow ban.
  - rvnx 4y ago
    In this case, a shadow ban would mean that if the owner of this website searched for his site on Bing/DDG, it would appear normally to him, but would be hidden from everyone else.
- ilyt 4y ago
  That would be silent ban (if you're not getting informend that you are, or reason for it), or just plain ban. Shadow ban is explicity "pretend to user they are not banned, but don't show it to everyone else" Like say getting shadow banned on reddit or HN, you will see your stuff when you're logged in, but anonymous or other people wont. Search equivalent would be you getting your own site when you're searching but nobody else does
paulcole 4y ago
He’s kinda Trump-esque in his willingness to just redefine words (and basically pretend the original use never existed) to his own benefit and have his followers jump on board. Another great Elon example of this is Tesla’s “Autopilot.”
- jimmygrapes 4y ago
  I really don't think the willingness to refine words willy-nilly is a behavior I would associate first with Trump or Elon. Using the wrong word and insisting it means the same thing, maybe, but certainly not redefining words.
- philippejara 4y ago
  Trump-esque? what words has trump even done that for? Changing the meaning of words to fit what you want has been happening long before the printing press even was invented by people in power, vying for power, reporting on things they have a biased interest in or just wanting a quick win on an argument. Not everything needs to be a trump analogy.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Trump popularized the term “fake news”, generally meaning “real news I don’t like”.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      People forget: for a very, very brief moment during the 2016 US presidential campaign, the problem of actual "fake news" was in the spotlight. Literal fake news, where a pseudo-news site would put up stories that was entirely fictional, to promote a political POV, and present them as news. Trump swiftly neutralized the term by co-opting it and using it, as you say, to mean "real news I don't like". But for just a moment in time, it was originally used to describe actual fiction posing as news.
      - NreItardGGERS 4y ago
ilyt 4y ago
There is difference between "content that is no longer actively promoted by a company" and "the company explicitly put your content on a no-show list". Sure, it's not shadow banning but "just" stealth banning (as you're still not informed that you got banned, or reason for it), but banning nonetheless
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  Is it even a ban? Your followers can still see it. People that don't follow that go to your profile can still see it. Elon says no one has the right to "freedom of reach" but never describes this concept as a ban.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jensson 4y ago
    If you get delisted from search and don't show up on exact match searches then I'd say that they banned you in some way. That is what Twitter does and what Bing did here. We call what Twitter does "shadow ban" since they still show you to yourself, to people subscribing to you and people with a direct link, but nobody else can find you, it isn't a total shadow ban but they are doing something very similar to a shadow ban. What shall we call that instead, "bubble ban", since it is like a shadow ban for specific bubbles and for everyone else it is as if that bubble never existed on the site?
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      There is no such thing as a total or less than total shadow ban. If you are visible with anyone with a direct link you aren't shadow banned it Bubble ban is also poor verbiage because not appearing in anyone's feed or search results is the default condition not inherently a punishment or redaction. A search is inherently a selection process and it's perfectly valid to say some content isn't fit to appear anywhere in a listing. I like reddits choice of "quarantined"
NreItardGGERS 4y ago
[dead]

extheat 4y ago

Well if you are silently placed on a hide list (by manual human intervention without you being able to know without a third party), then by all means that is a shadow ban. Edit for clarity.

causality0 4y ago
"Shadow ban" would be a good term to use for that if it didn't already have a meaning that was different. But it does.
- extheat 4y ago
  Hence why I said silently. If I’m posting something and it appears to me as usual on my feed but not others, by all means that’s a shadow ban.
  - InspiredIdiot 4y ago
    Nope. Still wrong. I understand there is some way it feels like that from your perspective but DDG and Bing don't own your feed. So they are hiding nothing from you. They are 100% ~up-front~ (edit) consistent about not choosing to show your site (ban it) and the fact that they don't control your feed doesn't make it any more accurate to apply the word "shadow" to their ban.
    - InspiredIdiot 4y ago
      I have become what I hate most. Someone who didn't read the article. I've heard too many instances of the term being misapplied and jumped to a conclusion based on the discussion. If you use Bing webmaster tools (a logged-in account for the use of the domain owner/content creator) and you can see indications that Bing indexed the content and no indications that errors preventing it from being eligible to show then it is certainly at least closer to a shadow ban than I originally thought. Still, any reference to a "feed" entirely misses the point unless Bing is the one also serving that feed. I can't see any evidence that Bing displays a feed to the poster.
colanderman 4y ago
No, a shadow ban specifically is designed to mislead you into thinking you are not banned, to delay you attempting to work around the ban. Regardless of whether you were notified, if you can see that you are banned, it is by definition not a shadow ban.
- rvnx 4y ago
  In this case, a shadow ban would mean that if the owner of this website searched for his site on Bing/DDG, it would appear normally to him, but would be hidden from everyone else.
ilyt 4y ago
That would be silent ban (if you're not getting informend that you are, or reason for it), or just plain ban. Shadow ban is explicity "pretend to user they are not banned, but don't show it to everyone else" Like say getting shadow banned on reddit or HN, you will see your stuff when you're logged in, but anonymous or other people wont. Search equivalent would be you getting your own site when you're searching but nobody else does

paulcole 4y ago

He’s kinda Trump-esque in his willingness to just redefine words (and basically pretend the original use never existed) to his own benefit and have his followers jump on board. Another great Elon example of this is Tesla’s “Autopilot.”

jimmygrapes 4y ago
I really don't think the willingness to refine words willy-nilly is a behavior I would associate first with Trump or Elon. Using the wrong word and insisting it means the same thing, maybe, but certainly not redefining words.
philippejara 4y ago
Trump-esque? what words has trump even done that for? Changing the meaning of words to fit what you want has been happening long before the printing press even was invented by people in power, vying for power, reporting on things they have a biased interest in or just wanting a quick win on an argument. Not everything needs to be a trump analogy.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Trump popularized the term “fake news”, generally meaning “real news I don’t like”.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    People forget: for a very, very brief moment during the 2016 US presidential campaign, the problem of actual "fake news" was in the spotlight. Literal fake news, where a pseudo-news site would put up stories that was entirely fictional, to promote a political POV, and present them as news. Trump swiftly neutralized the term by co-opting it and using it, as you say, to mean "real news I don't like". But for just a moment in time, it was originally used to describe actual fiction posing as news.
    - NreItardGGERS 4y ago

ilyt 4y ago

There is difference between "content that is no longer actively promoted by a company" and "the company explicitly put your content on a no-show list". Sure, it's not shadow banning but "just" stealth banning (as you're still not informed that you got banned, or reason for it), but banning nonetheless

cactusplant7374 4y ago
Is it even a ban? Your followers can still see it. People that don't follow that go to your profile can still see it. Elon says no one has the right to "freedom of reach" but never describes this concept as a ban.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Jensson 4y ago
  If you get delisted from search and don't show up on exact match searches then I'd say that they banned you in some way. That is what Twitter does and what Bing did here. We call what Twitter does "shadow ban" since they still show you to yourself, to people subscribing to you and people with a direct link, but nobody else can find you, it isn't a total shadow ban but they are doing something very similar to a shadow ban. What shall we call that instead, "bubble ban", since it is like a shadow ban for specific bubbles and for everyone else it is as if that bubble never existed on the site?
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    There is no such thing as a total or less than total shadow ban. If you are visible with anyone with a direct link you aren't shadow banned it Bubble ban is also poor verbiage because not appearing in anyone's feed or search results is the default condition not inherently a punishment or redaction. A search is inherently a selection process and it's perfectly valid to say some content isn't fit to appear anywhere in a listing. I like reddits choice of "quarantined"

NreItardGGERS 4y ago

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