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First I've heard of this, and as a long-time Debian user it initially sounded like yet another oddity peculiar to Ubuntu. It sounds like this problem shouldn't
by Jedd 4y ago
First I've heard of this, and as a long-time Debian user it initially sounded like yet another oddity peculiar to Ubuntu.
It sounds like this problem shouldn't / wouldn't affect most 'business' servers iff you were running the LTS (stable) branch, as security updates aren't phased (as per TFA's comment).
LTS Ubuntu, AIUI, is similar to Debian stable -- it only receives security patches, not new (feature) versions of any packages.
Reviewing apt & apt-get man pages here (I'm on 2.5.4) I see no references to 'phase'.
Reviewing Debian's changelog.gz I see the first phase reference in 2.5.1 (2022-07), and a subsequent reference in 2.5.3 (2022-09) - but nothing about 'phased updates' on the Debian wiki, and per Ubuntu's discourse[0] phased updates were first introduced to apt in version 2.1.16 - so I'm guessing it took a while for those to be fed upstream (to Debian - assuming they are still considered upstream for - dare I say it, the canonical owners of - apt/apt-get).
There's an askubuntu [1] post describing the what & why behind this change, and it sells the reader on the 'improved stability' claim, while downplaying TFA's concerns (potential random inconsistency), while acknowledging poor defaults, tooling, and documentation.
It does feel a bit of an odd solution to me - Debian provides a testing branch which seems to serve this function - some relatively small subset of users will use testing and find your bugs for you. If you seek safety & predictability then you stick with the stable / LTS branch.
In contrast, randomly selecting some subset of your users - with Ubuntu's typical opt-out default - to randomly get an early / deferred updating of some random subset of your installed packages just seems ... well, I can see why TFA was frustrated.
[0] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/phased-updates-in-apt-in-21-04/20345 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/phased-updates-in-apt-in-21-0...
[1] https://askubuntu.com/questions/1431940/what-are-phased-updates-and-why-does-ubuntu-use-them https://askubuntu.com/questions/1431940/what-are-phased-upda...
- usr1106 4y agoWill Debian upstrem even accept the feature? From what the blog post says the implementation is user-hostile: No logging what is going on and limited choice, no way to run a canary.
- Jedd 4y agoI've updated my earlier comment to clarify that I was checking the changelog for apt in my Debian system. On review it doesn't make much sense - searching for 'phase' there's an 'Add support for phased updates' in 2.5.3, but a few months earlier, in 2.5.1, the comment is: "(Temporarily) Rewrite phased updates using a keep-back approach." I thought I'd done a case-insensitive search before, but obviously hadn't, as there's one earlier reference in 2021-01 (for v2.1.16), which kind of aligns with the askubuntu's historical mention of 2.1.16 on the timeline, but the description certainly doesn't sound like the base feature (phased updates) introduction. "Add support for Phased-Update-Percentage, previously used only by update-manager."
- usr1106 4y agoSo you are saying Debian has accepted the feature. Although Debian servers proably don't use it for the time being?