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Amid the energy crisis in Europe, and a looming shut down of the last nuclear plants in Germany in April 2023 and declining gas input; coal has been revived as

Amid the energy crisis in Europe, and a looming shut down of the last nuclear plants in Germany in April 2023 and declining gas input; coal has been revived as the baseload power in Germany. In the last months of 2022, about a third of power production came from coal. In 2006, about a third instead came from nuclear plants. Source (Swedish): https://www.tn.se/naringsliv/24056/efter-nedlaggningen-av-karnkraft-nu-vantar-brunkol-i-vagguttagen/ https://www.tn.se/naringsliv/24056/efter-nedlaggningen-av-ka... Officially coal is supposed to be phased out by 2030.

cinntaile 4y ago
> In the last months of 2022, about a third of power production came from coal. In 2006, about a third instead came from nuclear plants. You are misrepresenting the data here, implying that coal production somehow has increased over that time period but in 2006 coal stood for about 60% of the power production. Coal usage is trending downwards, but during 2021 and 2022 it has gone up as a direct result of shutting down the nuclear plants and the reduced gas input.
- mikaeluman 4y ago
  Was not my intention to misrepresent that. Absolutely true that it has declined in total over that time period. I never made the claim you state either. The failure is the re-introduction now taking place.
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    It's a result of a situation largely outside of their control (the war), so I'm not sure if I would call it a failure. It's unfortunate of course, but it's a speed bump in the long run. Maybe it's even a blessing in disguise, without Putin nuclear would have been dead and buried in many countries. Now there is more interest from the public and governments than before, but the economics are still a big issue and the current high-interest (loan interest) environment definitely doesn't help. It would not surprise me if governments agree to unfavorable terms to help finance these things, governments have a huge information disadvantage here.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      The situation is fully under their control: First, because it is a result of their energy policy over the last decade(s). Second, because the consequences of "the war" are driven by how they decided to react to it. "The war" is being used as a convenient scapegoat. Everyone could see that the sh*t had to hit the fan one day because of the terrible energy policies in most of Europe... when that happens politicians are always very keen to find reasons "outside of their control"...
      - cinntaile 4y ago
        How is it a convenient scapegoat? If the supply of gas wasn't restricted we wouldn't be in this situation, I don't see how you can deny that.
    - looping__lui 4y ago
      Very much like Covid, very much like infrastructure like railroads or highways, very much like the health-care system. Their failure is incompetence fueled by ideology-driven politics for which they tried to undermine the very foundations of the German democracy (e.g., take away state-level authority during Covid). The US wasn’t the only one who warned the German government about the geopolitical risk they would be exposed to. Angela Merkel shut down nuclear power in Germany and then tied our industry to Putin.
    - buran77 4y ago
      The war exposed the failure but it was there all along. And I'll go a step further, being a bit more familiar with EU politics: this wasn't "failure" as in "random occurrence", it was set up to fail because of explicit financial interests at the top and misguided ideology for the rest. We knew the risks 30 years ago and yet German leaders in particular doubled down on reducing resiliency and increasing dependence on a high-risk partner in exchange for money and "feel good" lies to tell themselves and everyone else. EU has ran out of capable and reasonably honest leaders, now we have people with more strings attached than a piano. I say this as someone who's literally rubbed elbows with some of these people for years. Let me frame it in the IT landscape. If your storage kicks the bucket but you had no real backup, no procedures to bring back anything, and no spares you couldn't blame it on a random act outside of your control. If it turned out you had repeated warnings but instead chose to phase out backups and to replace the enterprise storage with SD cards from a shady manufacturer then you really wouldn't be able to claim "random act of God". And if when all is said and done you end up on the board of the shady SD manufacturer that kind of seals the deal on whether you are to blame or not.
- nix23 4y ago
  A matching yt overall ;) ApoCOALypse Now! [YouTube]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLThCHzetTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLThCHzetTU
- looping__lui 4y ago
  Not to mention that (retail) electricity prices went up like crazy and are now at up to 50 cents/kWh if you sign new contracts. 35 cents/kWh are pretty amazing already… The depiction has a breakdown of taxes also and the trend is what I remember. I must admit I’m not 1000% sure whether the page that links it is great though: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/13/german-household-electricity-prices-reach-new-record-high-in-2021share-of-green-electricity-falls/ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/13/german-household-elec... That did the industry in Germany a real solid: https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Schlaglichter-der-Wirtschaftspolitik/2022/02/16-konjunktur-wirtschaftliche-lage-in-deutschland.html https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Schlaglichter-der-Wirtschaf... Compared to 2015, it is down by 10% or so: https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Schlaglichter-der-Wirtschaftspolitik/2022/02/16-konjunktur-wirtschaftliche-lage-in-deutschland.html https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Schlaglichter-der-Wirtschaf... Now, I certainly advise caution how to interpret these figures and how inflation is factored in, etc. are big factors. Having several family members across Germany working in industrial production, there is a common theme that “production is shifted abroad at scale” though… Also keep in mind: the industry didn’t pay these 35 cents/kWh prices, those were what consumers paid… The past 17+ years of political failure did the German working class a real solid. When the head of a state advises people to “use a sponge and not shower so often to preserve hot water” it’s almost surreal that a government charging 45+% of tax of a countries GDP is unable to ensure people have hot water, heating or keep up the electrical supply for industry.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    Yes, it is a total failure of policy over several decades that has finally been exposed. Hence why politicians are so keen to assign the blame on "the war".
  - carschno 4y ago
    Not arguing against the political failures, but mind that the impressions of "several family members" do not yield figures reliable for any conclusions.
    - looping__lui 4y ago
- foepys 4y ago
  Also, almost half of the French nuclear reactors were down for maintenance in 2022, requiring German coal and gas power plants to stabilize the European power grid. The reactors only recently went online again. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/18/business/france-nuclear-power-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/18/business/france-nuclear-p...
- Haga 4y ago
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cinntaile 4y ago

> In the last months of 2022, about a third of power production came from coal. In 2006, about a third instead came from nuclear plants. You are misrepresenting the data here, implying that coal production somehow has increased over that time period but in 2006 coal stood for about 60% of the power production. Coal usage is trending downwards, but during 2021 and 2022 it has gone up as a direct result of shutting down the nuclear plants and the reduced gas input.

mikaeluman 4y ago
Was not my intention to misrepresent that. Absolutely true that it has declined in total over that time period. I never made the claim you state either. The failure is the re-introduction now taking place.
- cinntaile 4y ago
  It's a result of a situation largely outside of their control (the war), so I'm not sure if I would call it a failure. It's unfortunate of course, but it's a speed bump in the long run. Maybe it's even a blessing in disguise, without Putin nuclear would have been dead and buried in many countries. Now there is more interest from the public and governments than before, but the economics are still a big issue and the current high-interest (loan interest) environment definitely doesn't help. It would not surprise me if governments agree to unfavorable terms to help finance these things, governments have a huge information disadvantage here.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    The situation is fully under their control: First, because it is a result of their energy policy over the last decade(s). Second, because the consequences of "the war" are driven by how they decided to react to it. "The war" is being used as a convenient scapegoat. Everyone could see that the sh*t had to hit the fan one day because of the terrible energy policies in most of Europe... when that happens politicians are always very keen to find reasons "outside of their control"...
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      How is it a convenient scapegoat? If the supply of gas wasn't restricted we wouldn't be in this situation, I don't see how you can deny that.
  - looping__lui 4y ago
    Very much like Covid, very much like infrastructure like railroads or highways, very much like the health-care system. Their failure is incompetence fueled by ideology-driven politics for which they tried to undermine the very foundations of the German democracy (e.g., take away state-level authority during Covid). The US wasn’t the only one who warned the German government about the geopolitical risk they would be exposed to. Angela Merkel shut down nuclear power in Germany and then tied our industry to Putin.
  - buran77 4y ago
    The war exposed the failure but it was there all along. And I'll go a step further, being a bit more familiar with EU politics: this wasn't "failure" as in "random occurrence", it was set up to fail because of explicit financial interests at the top and misguided ideology for the rest. We knew the risks 30 years ago and yet German leaders in particular doubled down on reducing resiliency and increasing dependence on a high-risk partner in exchange for money and "feel good" lies to tell themselves and everyone else. EU has ran out of capable and reasonably honest leaders, now we have people with more strings attached than a piano. I say this as someone who's literally rubbed elbows with some of these people for years. Let me frame it in the IT landscape. If your storage kicks the bucket but you had no real backup, no procedures to bring back anything, and no spares you couldn't blame it on a random act outside of your control. If it turned out you had repeated warnings but instead chose to phase out backups and to replace the enterprise storage with SD cards from a shady manufacturer then you really wouldn't be able to claim "random act of God". And if when all is said and done you end up on the board of the shady SD manufacturer that kind of seals the deal on whether you are to blame or not.
nix23 4y ago
A matching yt overall ;) ApoCOALypse Now! [YouTube]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLThCHzetTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLThCHzetTU
looping__lui 4y ago
Not to mention that (retail) electricity prices went up like crazy and are now at up to 50 cents/kWh if you sign new contracts. 35 cents/kWh are pretty amazing already… The depiction has a breakdown of taxes also and the trend is what I remember. I must admit I’m not 1000% sure whether the page that links it is great though: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/13/german-household-electricity-prices-reach-new-record-high-in-2021share-of-green-electricity-falls/ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/13/german-household-elec... That did the industry in Germany a real solid: https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Schlaglichter-der-Wirtschaftspolitik/2022/02/16-konjunktur-wirtschaftliche-lage-in-deutschland.html https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Schlaglichter-der-Wirtschaf... Compared to 2015, it is down by 10% or so: https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Schlaglichter-der-Wirtschaftspolitik/2022/02/16-konjunktur-wirtschaftliche-lage-in-deutschland.html https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Schlaglichter-der-Wirtschaf... Now, I certainly advise caution how to interpret these figures and how inflation is factored in, etc. are big factors. Having several family members across Germany working in industrial production, there is a common theme that “production is shifted abroad at scale” though… Also keep in mind: the industry didn’t pay these 35 cents/kWh prices, those were what consumers paid… The past 17+ years of political failure did the German working class a real solid. When the head of a state advises people to “use a sponge and not shower so often to preserve hot water” it’s almost surreal that a government charging 45+% of tax of a countries GDP is unable to ensure people have hot water, heating or keep up the electrical supply for industry.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Yes, it is a total failure of policy over several decades that has finally been exposed. Hence why politicians are so keen to assign the blame on "the war".
- carschno 4y ago
  Not arguing against the political failures, but mind that the impressions of "several family members" do not yield figures reliable for any conclusions.
  - looping__lui 4y ago
foepys 4y ago
Also, almost half of the French nuclear reactors were down for maintenance in 2022, requiring German coal and gas power plants to stabilize the European power grid. The reactors only recently went online again. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/18/business/france-nuclear-power-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/18/business/france-nuclear-p...
Haga 4y ago
[dead]