3 ms·

> The M32 system is a 5,000 kg, four-hour Kinetic Energy Storage System (KESS) flywheel technology. It can store 32 kWh of energy in a 2 ton steel rotor. Isn’t

> The M32 system is a 5,000 kg, four-hour Kinetic Energy Storage System (KESS) flywheel technology. It can store 32 kWh of energy in a 2 ton steel rotor. Isn’t 32 kWh enough to power on the order of 2-3 homes?

bertil 4y ago
For a year and US home, 10 MWh yes. That’s also enough for a few seconds for 10k homes.
- deleted 4y ago
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dotancohen 4y ago
For how long? One hour? Maybe American or European homes. When I'm not charging the Tesla my home rarely goes above 5 kW - only when I'm cooking with the electric oven and electric range. We don't use a television or very much heating or cooling. But I've seen homes that have a steady 10 kW load in the US - security systems, central AC, and way too many lights and televisions on were the big constant loads.
- bonzini 4y ago
  What do you do with 5 kW if the oven and stove and car charger are off? I have 3.6 kW (16 A @ 230 V) for everything except cooking and heating (both of which are gas)... American energy use is really on another level.
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    The hot water heater might be on, that's I think 1800 W. We have a clothes washing machine and dishwasher as well, they both get up to 2kW each but only for a few minutes in the cycle. The built-in vacuum system I've never measured, but wouldn't surprise me if it's 1500 to 2000 W, though I don't even think it works right now. I suspect that the microwave oven is in the same power range - 1500 to 2000 W. There's a desktop computer that's sometimes on, it's probably good for 300 Watts with the LCD monitor. Add maybe a dozen light bulbs and phone chargers and a small fish tank pump and the refrigerator, it can get up above 5 kW at times and I sure above that if we're really running three or four appliances at once.
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    My average draw is around 300 watts during the winter, more like 200 in the summer. One of my big electricity users is the gas heating system (inducer and pumps). Clothes dryer is probably the biggest single load. I think I have 100 amp service. But it's matched to the potential load of the house, not the average load.
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toast0 4y ago
32kWh over four hours (assuming that's what that means) is 8kW continuous; The US energy information administration says something near an average of 1kW per residential utility customer[1] (I rounded), so it would cover about 8 homes in the US. Energy use is probably different in the Phillipines, but you can aggregate many of these, presumably to get to your storage and charge/discharge requirements. [1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3#:~:text=In%202020,%20the%20average%20annual,about%20893%20kWh%20per%20month https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3#:~:text=In%....
silisili 4y ago
Keep in mind the vast, vast majority of homes in the Philippines use little power - a few light bulbs and a phone charger. Microwaves, electric stoves, ACs, tvs, and large refrigerators or freezers are rare to find in a house, much less something like a hot tubs or Tesla power walls as someone else mentioned.
- schiffern 4y ago
  You got me curious. In 2020 (the latest year with data), per-capita electricity consumption in the Philippines was 897 kWh[1] and the average household size was 4.1 people.[2] This works out to 10.1 kWh/household/day. In that same year, the comparable number for the US was 29.3 kWh/household/day.[3] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1236746/consumption-of-electricity-per-capita-in-the-philippines/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1236746/consumption-of-e... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1298672/philippines-average-household-size/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1298672/philippines-aver... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20220101185903/https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3 https://web.archive.org/web/20220101185903/https://www.eia.g...
  - nomel 4y ago
    So, one would cover around 16 houses. That’s some incredible tonnage. I wonder if cemented rubble, in a steel housing, could be used.
    - schiffern 4y ago
      Hard to say. We're trying to compare the instantaneous flywheel power rate with the average annual household usage. During peak times (when a flywheel would need to discharge), by definition households are using more than average. But it's also true that less than 100% of the electricity demand needs to be time-shifted.
    - kerpotgh 4y ago
      [dead]
    - 4y ago

bertil 4y ago

For a year and US home, 10 MWh yes. That’s also enough for a few seconds for 10k homes.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dotancohen 4y ago

For how long? One hour? Maybe American or European homes. When I'm not charging the Tesla my home rarely goes above 5 kW - only when I'm cooking with the electric oven and electric range. We don't use a television or very much heating or cooling. But I've seen homes that have a steady 10 kW load in the US - security systems, central AC, and way too many lights and televisions on were the big constant loads.

bonzini 4y ago
What do you do with 5 kW if the oven and stove and car charger are off? I have 3.6 kW (16 A @ 230 V) for everything except cooking and heating (both of which are gas)... American energy use is really on another level.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  The hot water heater might be on, that's I think 1800 W. We have a clothes washing machine and dishwasher as well, they both get up to 2kW each but only for a few minutes in the cycle. The built-in vacuum system I've never measured, but wouldn't surprise me if it's 1500 to 2000 W, though I don't even think it works right now. I suspect that the microwave oven is in the same power range - 1500 to 2000 W. There's a desktop computer that's sometimes on, it's probably good for 300 Watts with the LCD monitor. Add maybe a dozen light bulbs and phone chargers and a small fish tank pump and the refrigerator, it can get up above 5 kW at times and I sure above that if we're really running three or four appliances at once.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  My average draw is around 300 watts during the winter, more like 200 in the summer. One of my big electricity users is the gas heating system (inducer and pumps). Clothes dryer is probably the biggest single load. I think I have 100 amp service. But it's matched to the potential load of the house, not the average load.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

toast0 4y ago

32kWh over four hours (assuming that's what that means) is 8kW continuous; The US energy information administration says something near an average of 1kW per residential utility customer[1] (I rounded), so it would cover about 8 homes in the US. Energy use is probably different in the Phillipines, but you can aggregate many of these, presumably to get to your storage and charge/discharge requirements. [1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3#:~:text=In%202020,%20the%20average%20annual,about%20893%20kWh%20per%20month https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3#:~:text=In%....

silisili 4y ago

Keep in mind the vast, vast majority of homes in the Philippines use little power - a few light bulbs and a phone charger. Microwaves, electric stoves, ACs, tvs, and large refrigerators or freezers are rare to find in a house, much less something like a hot tubs or Tesla power walls as someone else mentioned.

schiffern 4y ago
You got me curious. In 2020 (the latest year with data), per-capita electricity consumption in the Philippines was 897 kWh[1] and the average household size was 4.1 people.[2] This works out to 10.1 kWh/household/day. In that same year, the comparable number for the US was 29.3 kWh/household/day.[3] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1236746/consumption-of-electricity-per-capita-in-the-philippines/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1236746/consumption-of-e... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1298672/philippines-average-household-size/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1298672/philippines-aver... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20220101185903/https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3 https://web.archive.org/web/20220101185903/https://www.eia.g...
- nomel 4y ago
  So, one would cover around 16 houses. That’s some incredible tonnage. I wonder if cemented rubble, in a steel housing, could be used.
  - schiffern 4y ago
    Hard to say. We're trying to compare the instantaneous flywheel power rate with the average annual household usage. During peak times (when a flywheel would need to discharge), by definition households are using more than average. But it's also true that less than 100% of the electricity demand needs to be time-shifted.
  - kerpotgh 4y ago
    [dead]
  - 4y ago