14 ms·

I understand the link's author got mesa3d working. But to do so, they used git head mesa3d, experimental kernel patches to get the kernel part working, and fir

by snvzz 4y ago

I understand the link's author got mesa3d working. But to do so, they used git head mesa3d, experimental kernel patches to get the kernel part working, and firmware blobs they took from the proprietary driver. We'll have to wait a little more, but will get system images with all of that already working. Eventually, it'll all be upstream. It helps that large amounts of these boards (more than every RISC-V SBC before, combined) are getting to developers. This was the whole point of the boards after all.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> they used git head mesa3d, experimental kernel patches to get the kernel part working, In fairness, that's what I'd expect for new hardware; out of tree patches, then head, then unstable/rc/beta releases, then eventually normally stable versions. The firmware blobs are unfortunate, though.
- snvzz 4y ago
  While it is reasonable to expect this much, we seldom get anywhere near that. The usual fare is, unfortunately, just an android kernel source tarball that has been modified so that it works with the hardware, with no history of changes nor documentation of the hardware. The situation with GPUs, specifically, is really bad. Intel, AMD and now Imagination Technologies are about the only ones, that I am aware of, who seem to care about open drivers.
  - wereallterrrist 4y ago
    Don't AMD GPUs still have firmware blobs, they just happen to submit them to upstream linux-firmware?
    - Heston 4y ago
      Yeah, the open drivers don't matter a whole lot. It just loads the closed source proprietary blob into the gpu. It's a step in the right direction but can be very misleading.
      - pabs3 4y ago
        The worst part is when those blobs are signed, then you can't reverse engineer them and replace them with open firmware.
        snvzz 4y ago
        This is one of many ways by which NVIDIA actively sabotages the open source driver effort. They were catching up at some point, and NVIDIA started doing that.
        pabs3 4y ago
        The good news is that with the new open Linux kernel drivers from NVIDIA, Nouveau folks will be able to use the same signed proprietary firmware as the proprietary userspace component of the NVIDIA drivers. So that should unblock development of the open userspace component of the libre Nouveau drivers too.
    - mananaysiempre 4y ago
      AMD’s linux-firmware blobs also exclude OpenCL support IIRC.
      - dogben 4y ago
        They do support OpenCL. You only need their closed source user space library libamdocl*.so and libamd_comgr.so to use it.
    - xen2xen1 4y ago
      They do, IIRC, but, interestingly, Nvidia doesn't only because they put a RISC V processor on board that keeps it's own blob a few generations back (20xx?). I'm not sure that's actually more open, but I guess if you can run it with all open source drivers and no proprietary blob, that's good?
- pabs3 4y ago
  The firmware blobs are normal, every major GPU requires them. Lots of other things too.
- Klasiaster 4y ago
  With x86 PC compatibles you expect the opposite: You can use old software and the system will still boot and be mostly usable but not with SoC boards :shrug:

by snvzz 4y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

> they used git head mesa3d, experimental kernel patches to get the kernel part working, In fairness, that's what I'd expect for new hardware; out of tree patches, then head, then unstable/rc/beta releases, then eventually normally stable versions. The firmware blobs are unfortunate, though.

snvzz 4y ago
While it is reasonable to expect this much, we seldom get anywhere near that. The usual fare is, unfortunately, just an android kernel source tarball that has been modified so that it works with the hardware, with no history of changes nor documentation of the hardware. The situation with GPUs, specifically, is really bad. Intel, AMD and now Imagination Technologies are about the only ones, that I am aware of, who seem to care about open drivers.
- wereallterrrist 4y ago
  Don't AMD GPUs still have firmware blobs, they just happen to submit them to upstream linux-firmware?
  - Heston 4y ago
    Yeah, the open drivers don't matter a whole lot. It just loads the closed source proprietary blob into the gpu. It's a step in the right direction but can be very misleading.
    - pabs3 4y ago
      The worst part is when those blobs are signed, then you can't reverse engineer them and replace them with open firmware.
      - snvzz 4y ago
        This is one of many ways by which NVIDIA actively sabotages the open source driver effort. They were catching up at some point, and NVIDIA started doing that.
        pabs3 4y ago
        The good news is that with the new open Linux kernel drivers from NVIDIA, Nouveau folks will be able to use the same signed proprietary firmware as the proprietary userspace component of the NVIDIA drivers. So that should unblock development of the open userspace component of the libre Nouveau drivers too.
  - mananaysiempre 4y ago
    AMD’s linux-firmware blobs also exclude OpenCL support IIRC.
    - dogben 4y ago
      They do support OpenCL. You only need their closed source user space library libamdocl*.so and libamd_comgr.so to use it.
  - xen2xen1 4y ago
    They do, IIRC, but, interestingly, Nvidia doesn't only because they put a RISC V processor on board that keeps it's own blob a few generations back (20xx?). I'm not sure that's actually more open, but I guess if you can run it with all open source drivers and no proprietary blob, that's good?
pabs3 4y ago
The firmware blobs are normal, every major GPU requires them. Lots of other things too.
Klasiaster 4y ago
With x86 PC compatibles you expect the opposite: You can use old software and the system will still boot and be mostly usable but not with SoC boards :shrug: