2 ms·

Are we still talking about "command line applications"? Because your comment is exactly how I feel about web development, and somehow all the "younger developer

by saurik 4y ago

Are we still talking about "command line applications"? Because your comment is exactly how I feel about web development, and somehow all the "younger developers" are more than happy to sit around with seemingly infinitely-complex GUI front-end stacks that only have some indirect relationship to JavaScript.

the_only_law 4y ago
Tbh I agree with both of you. Things feel fucked all around.
throw_m239339 4y ago
I mean front-end development relies heavily on CLI to compile, optimize, bundle, test stuffs with its gazillion of half baked "make" imitations... every single framework comes with their own CLI tools, and to make everything work together another layer of CLI tools needs to be added on top... which result in slow compilation times, the irony of Javascript in the browser which was designed to be a thin layer of dynamic interactions with HTML documents you only had to refresh the page after editing a script... It's safe to say that front-end development is now more complex than JEE...
Spivak 4y ago
I mean kinda, someone who has been following web development since jQuery and MooTools is going to grok everything way better than someone who is standing today looking backwards, gazing into the labyrinthine nightmare that is the modern JS stack. Either you were around for when each part was introduced and it was a gradual descent into madness where the next step was a natural progression from the previous, or you weren't and now you're in the center of the maze without a map and in your mania you desperately try to invent higher level primitives and metaphors that let you reason about... well anything at all. But they're all falsehoods that break down eventually and require an elder or time spent with the sacred texts to achieve enlightenment. Repeat the cycle and you get a senior dev in <something: webdev> whose skills are only kinda transferrable to <other thing: CLIs> and you must start your journey over again. So you have arch mages in webdev who are a acolytes in systems and the only way they'll progress to is write a lot of bad code. I'll get there eventually but how long it takes is dependent on how many opportunities I get to cut my teeth on stuff that requires a more complete understanding.

by saurik 4y ago

the_only_law 4y ago

Tbh I agree with both of you. Things feel fucked all around.

throw_m239339 4y ago

I mean front-end development relies heavily on CLI to compile, optimize, bundle, test stuffs with its gazillion of half baked "make" imitations... every single framework comes with their own CLI tools, and to make everything work together another layer of CLI tools needs to be added on top... which result in slow compilation times, the irony of Javascript in the browser which was designed to be a thin layer of dynamic interactions with HTML documents you only had to refresh the page after editing a script... It's safe to say that front-end development is now more complex than JEE...

Spivak 4y ago

I mean kinda, someone who has been following web development since jQuery and MooTools is going to grok everything way better than someone who is standing today looking backwards, gazing into the labyrinthine nightmare that is the modern JS stack. Either you were around for when each part was introduced and it was a gradual descent into madness where the next step was a natural progression from the previous, or you weren't and now you're in the center of the maze without a map and in your mania you desperately try to invent higher level primitives and metaphors that let you reason about... well anything at all. But they're all falsehoods that break down eventually and require an elder or time spent with the sacred texts to achieve enlightenment. Repeat the cycle and you get a senior dev in <something: webdev> whose skills are only kinda transferrable to <other thing: CLIs> and you must start your journey over again. So you have arch mages in webdev who are a acolytes in systems and the only way they'll progress to is write a lot of bad code. I'll get there eventually but how long it takes is dependent on how many opportunities I get to cut my teeth on stuff that requires a more complete understanding.