5 ms·

Job interviews are a nightmare – and only getting worse

26 points by JSeymourATL 4y ago

j-kent 4y ago
My solution to this is to tell the hiring person that I am also interviewing at other companies (which I usually am). Telling them that I am expecting an offer soon really speeds the process along.
yazzku 4y ago
My interviews have been just fine. That being said, I did go through the canonical 15-minute slides presentation once. That should be a red flag to any job seeker.
bazmattaz 4y ago
I recently got hired for a large tech company. Interview process was three months long with 4 separate rounds not including the initial 30min call with HR. The final round was approx 4hrs and was 5 45min interviews! I was broken by the end of it. I understand that companies need to do their due diligence but honestly there was so much repetition in the interviews it could all have been slimmed down to 2 1hr interviews
- gedy 4y ago
  It's silly, but likely a combo of wanting to interview a number of candidates, and stringing you along while they talk to others, make-work for HR, and maybe some hand wringing indecisiveness.
- spamizbad 4y ago
  I came to that same realization and that’s basically how I shaped my eng orgs hiring: * 15+ minute chat with a recruiter * 15 minute technical screen with fizz-buzzy like questions to just validate you can convert simple requirements into working code * 1 hour technical screen with a senior/staff engineer that’ll probably be on team you’re working on. Explicitly non-adversarial and friendly: just pros talking shop, working thru problem(s) * 1 hour follow-up with the engineering manager whose team you’re joining (more process-oriented, also understanding you as a person) it’s like 2.5 hours all-in spread across 3 meetings (it’s remote over zoom so it’s all flexible). If you need more time you probably aren’t asking the right questions, or just trying to push someone until they are way out of their depth and decide whether or not that’s a dealbreaker. Hate that crap, so I refuse to do it.
VLM 4y ago
With a side dish of "we can't find any employees willing to work here"
omgmajk 4y ago
Never been to an interview with a big tech company, except Volvo and TeliaSonera, that was pretty smooth at the time (2008ish). But I hear a lot of stories from the bigger giants and I did read through a book that is supposed to help you prepare for those interviews, just in case I get snapped up at some point.
- lylejantzi3rd 4y ago
  It's not just the big companies anymore. Even the small tech companies offering 80k for a senior engineer position insist on at least 4 rounds of interviews.
  - arkitaip 4y ago
    They have none of the financial muscles of big tech yet have adopted all their overhead and poor practices.
  - omgmajk 4y ago
    The small ones I went to interview with, about five of them in total before I decided on my current job never had anything like it. I guess I got spared.
    - lylejantzi3rd 4y ago
      It's possible you got lucky, but it's also possible we're comparing apples to oranges. What sort of jobs and in what market? I'm talking about full-stack, frontend and backend web roles in the USA.
      - omgmajk 4y ago
        Well, mostly what people would call full-stack I guess. But not in USA. I ended up in the vehicle industry and wear a lot of different hats currently. I guess I could call myself R&D but honestly I'm just a developer that does every part of the chain.
andrewfromx 4y ago
Feels like candidates should be able to invoice for their time once it goes beyond a few hours. Maybe in some cases the company will respect that approach. Hey you want me to do 8 hours more hoop jumping? No problem that’s $60 per hoop. Oh sorry I can’t come back yet your last invoice was never paid…
- lapcat 4y ago
  I'm not sure this would help anything. Companies are already wasting a vast amount of time and money on the hiring process, taking their own employees off work to do interviewing. So this additional cost probably wouldn't bother them much. Most job candidates aren't looking for a temporary contracting gig, they're looking for a permanent job.
- stephen_cagle 4y ago
  I agree with this for a different reason. States should mandate that time spent at a job interview must be paid proportional to the average rate of the position you are applying for. This includes take home work! The reason for this is that if I know you are spending as much as you might spend for an employee on interviewing me, then I know that you are serious about this being a possibility. This also means you can't send a take home to 1000 candidates, review a few tens of them, and then hire 1. A process I think is rather common at many shops.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >States should mandate that time spent at a job interview must be paid proportional to the average rate of the position you are applying for. This includes take home work! Beware of unintended consequences. One of the reasons mentioned in the article for why interviews were so long is that companies are risk adverse and don't want the risk of being saddled with a bad employee. If you mandate that interviews must be paid, the same dynamic would apply. Specifically, companies would care even more about your resume/linkedin/experience, because they don't want to waste money on marginal/inexperienced candidates.
  - saulpw 4y ago
bushbaba 4y ago
Surprised the government hasn’t stepped in to make companies pay at least minimum wage for time spent at the interview
- krapp 4y ago
  Companies pay wages to employees - people who interview for jobs are by definition not employees. It's your personal time and choice to remain there and engage with that process, you aren't owed anything for that.
- lapcat 4y ago
  It doesn't matter. I don't want to work a minimum wage job at all. Getting a job shouldn't be a job in itself.
- stephen_cagle 4y ago
  Agreed, except that it should be set to the average salary of the position.
Joel_Mckay 4y ago
Process People: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZAJY23xio&t=1550s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZAJY23xio&t=1550s =)
- readonthegoapp 4y ago
  not available
  - Joel_Mckay 4y ago
    It is a section of "Steve Jobs - The Lost Interview" from the 1990's where he talks about how company growth can fail from internal structural and personnel problems. Specifically, he observes the dynamic-range of technology people being vastly different from most other business roles. Additionally, how large mature tech firms often liquidate the goodwill previously earned with consumers. While he was a controversial character in some ways, much of what he observed remains true to this day. Good luck, =)
isoprophlex 4y ago
Well... seems like when it comes to these ridiculous interviews, the only winning move is not to play.
lapcat 4y ago
This is a big reason why I'm self-employed now. (Another is that bosses suck in general, not just at hiring.) I hope to never do a job interview again. My customers don't want to put me through the wringer.
- devoutsalsa 4y ago
  If you’d be willing to chat about your experience of becoming self employed & finding new business, I’d love to chat with you. I’ve thought going freelance from time to time. My email is in my bio.
friendlyHornet 4y ago
At what point will society stop accepting this ridiculous behaviour? At what point will this shit become taboo? In 2019, i was looking for a job as a software developer and experienced something quite similar to what Jessica (the protagonist of the article) experienced. There's so much ritualistic bs that has absolutely nothing to do with the job that we have to put up with when interviewing! Why does my employer need to know my thoughts on those weird sophisticated-sounding questions? What value do these ridiculous "team games" they make us play with other candidates bring? It shows "team work" capabilities, some might say, but the games feel like games you play at Kindergarten and seem to be confusing and awkward for no reason I have a feeling this process isn't going to help you hire the "right candidate"; rather, the candidate that bullshited their way through thr process and manipulated the HR employees the best. Doing job interviews seems to have become a skill of its own. Maybe we should start putting "can manipulate HR effectively" on our CVs Fortunately, my current employer was the exact opposite; they only gave me one interview with HR and then one interview with who became my boss, and there was no bs involved. I am so happy with them and our HR department.
- lithos 4y ago
  When workers expect 50K a year per interview stage. Higher pay needs higher risk mitigation after all.
  - friendlyHornet 4y ago
    I don't see how these ridiculous occult rituals mitigate risk. They only prove the candidate is desperate enough for a job to put themselves through it (which is what I was when I put myself through it since it was going to be my first job). Is their any evidence it says anything about employee retention? I feel much more loyal to the employer I ended up with (still my current employer since 2019), who has a no-bullshit hr department
    - lylejantzi3rd 4y ago
      > I don't see how these ridiculous occult rituals mitigate risk. They don't, but they make the hiring manager feel like it does. It calms the lizard part of the brain.
thunkshift1 4y ago
The only meaningful change will come when interviewees (us) stop putting up with this bs. I don’t know why but all of tech seems to be loathe to any collective/community action even when it is strongly in their favor. When a large enough number of people start refusing interviews citing ridiculous interview processes, then the hiring process will change.
- kyleee 4y ago
  So, never, basically. There will always be lots of people willing to jump through lots of hoops for a chance at such a relatively high level of comp
l3uwin 4y ago
[dead]

26 points by JSeymourATL 4y ago

My solution to this is to tell the hiring person that I am also interviewing at other companies (which I usually am). Telling them that I am expecting an offer soon really speeds the process along.

yazzku 4y ago

My interviews have been just fine. That being said, I did go through the canonical 15-minute slides presentation once. That should be a red flag to any job seeker.

bazmattaz 4y ago

I recently got hired for a large tech company. Interview process was three months long with 4 separate rounds not including the initial 30min call with HR. The final round was approx 4hrs and was 5 45min interviews! I was broken by the end of it. I understand that companies need to do their due diligence but honestly there was so much repetition in the interviews it could all have been slimmed down to 2 1hr interviews

gedy 4y ago
It's silly, but likely a combo of wanting to interview a number of candidates, and stringing you along while they talk to others, make-work for HR, and maybe some hand wringing indecisiveness.
spamizbad 4y ago
I came to that same realization and that’s basically how I shaped my eng orgs hiring: * 15+ minute chat with a recruiter * 15 minute technical screen with fizz-buzzy like questions to just validate you can convert simple requirements into working code * 1 hour technical screen with a senior/staff engineer that’ll probably be on team you’re working on. Explicitly non-adversarial and friendly: just pros talking shop, working thru problem(s) * 1 hour follow-up with the engineering manager whose team you’re joining (more process-oriented, also understanding you as a person) it’s like 2.5 hours all-in spread across 3 meetings (it’s remote over zoom so it’s all flexible). If you need more time you probably aren’t asking the right questions, or just trying to push someone until they are way out of their depth and decide whether or not that’s a dealbreaker. Hate that crap, so I refuse to do it.

VLM 4y ago

With a side dish of "we can't find any employees willing to work here"

omgmajk 4y ago

Never been to an interview with a big tech company, except Volvo and TeliaSonera, that was pretty smooth at the time (2008ish). But I hear a lot of stories from the bigger giants and I did read through a book that is supposed to help you prepare for those interviews, just in case I get snapped up at some point.

lylejantzi3rd 4y ago
It's not just the big companies anymore. Even the small tech companies offering 80k for a senior engineer position insist on at least 4 rounds of interviews.
- arkitaip 4y ago
  They have none of the financial muscles of big tech yet have adopted all their overhead and poor practices.
- omgmajk 4y ago
  The small ones I went to interview with, about five of them in total before I decided on my current job never had anything like it. I guess I got spared.
  - lylejantzi3rd 4y ago
    It's possible you got lucky, but it's also possible we're comparing apples to oranges. What sort of jobs and in what market? I'm talking about full-stack, frontend and backend web roles in the USA.
    - omgmajk 4y ago
      Well, mostly what people would call full-stack I guess. But not in USA. I ended up in the vehicle industry and wear a lot of different hats currently. I guess I could call myself R&D but honestly I'm just a developer that does every part of the chain.

andrewfromx 4y ago

Feels like candidates should be able to invoice for their time once it goes beyond a few hours. Maybe in some cases the company will respect that approach. Hey you want me to do 8 hours more hoop jumping? No problem that’s $60 per hoop. Oh sorry I can’t come back yet your last invoice was never paid…

lapcat 4y ago
I'm not sure this would help anything. Companies are already wasting a vast amount of time and money on the hiring process, taking their own employees off work to do interviewing. So this additional cost probably wouldn't bother them much. Most job candidates aren't looking for a temporary contracting gig, they're looking for a permanent job.
stephen_cagle 4y ago
I agree with this for a different reason. States should mandate that time spent at a job interview must be paid proportional to the average rate of the position you are applying for. This includes take home work! The reason for this is that if I know you are spending as much as you might spend for an employee on interviewing me, then I know that you are serious about this being a possibility. This also means you can't send a take home to 1000 candidates, review a few tens of them, and then hire 1. A process I think is rather common at many shops.
- gruez 4y ago
  >States should mandate that time spent at a job interview must be paid proportional to the average rate of the position you are applying for. This includes take home work! Beware of unintended consequences. One of the reasons mentioned in the article for why interviews were so long is that companies are risk adverse and don't want the risk of being saddled with a bad employee. If you mandate that interviews must be paid, the same dynamic would apply. Specifically, companies would care even more about your resume/linkedin/experience, because they don't want to waste money on marginal/inexperienced candidates.
- saulpw 4y ago

bushbaba 4y ago

Surprised the government hasn’t stepped in to make companies pay at least minimum wage for time spent at the interview

krapp 4y ago
Companies pay wages to employees - people who interview for jobs are by definition not employees. It's your personal time and choice to remain there and engage with that process, you aren't owed anything for that.
lapcat 4y ago
It doesn't matter. I don't want to work a minimum wage job at all. Getting a job shouldn't be a job in itself.
stephen_cagle 4y ago
Agreed, except that it should be set to the average salary of the position.

Joel_Mckay 4y ago

Process People: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZAJY23xio&t=1550s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZAJY23xio&t=1550s =)

readonthegoapp 4y ago
not available
- Joel_Mckay 4y ago
  It is a section of "Steve Jobs - The Lost Interview" from the 1990's where he talks about how company growth can fail from internal structural and personnel problems. Specifically, he observes the dynamic-range of technology people being vastly different from most other business roles. Additionally, how large mature tech firms often liquidate the goodwill previously earned with consumers. While he was a controversial character in some ways, much of what he observed remains true to this day. Good luck, =)

isoprophlex 4y ago

Well... seems like when it comes to these ridiculous interviews, the only winning move is not to play.

lapcat 4y ago

This is a big reason why I'm self-employed now. (Another is that bosses suck in general, not just at hiring.) I hope to never do a job interview again. My customers don't want to put me through the wringer.

devoutsalsa 4y ago
If you’d be willing to chat about your experience of becoming self employed & finding new business, I’d love to chat with you. I’ve thought going freelance from time to time. My email is in my bio.

friendlyHornet 4y ago

At what point will society stop accepting this ridiculous behaviour? At what point will this shit become taboo? In 2019, i was looking for a job as a software developer and experienced something quite similar to what Jessica (the protagonist of the article) experienced. There's so much ritualistic bs that has absolutely nothing to do with the job that we have to put up with when interviewing! Why does my employer need to know my thoughts on those weird sophisticated-sounding questions? What value do these ridiculous "team games" they make us play with other candidates bring? It shows "team work" capabilities, some might say, but the games feel like games you play at Kindergarten and seem to be confusing and awkward for no reason I have a feeling this process isn't going to help you hire the "right candidate"; rather, the candidate that bullshited their way through thr process and manipulated the HR employees the best. Doing job interviews seems to have become a skill of its own. Maybe we should start putting "can manipulate HR effectively" on our CVs Fortunately, my current employer was the exact opposite; they only gave me one interview with HR and then one interview with who became my boss, and there was no bs involved. I am so happy with them and our HR department.

lithos 4y ago
When workers expect 50K a year per interview stage. Higher pay needs higher risk mitigation after all.
- friendlyHornet 4y ago
  I don't see how these ridiculous occult rituals mitigate risk. They only prove the candidate is desperate enough for a job to put themselves through it (which is what I was when I put myself through it since it was going to be my first job). Is their any evidence it says anything about employee retention? I feel much more loyal to the employer I ended up with (still my current employer since 2019), who has a no-bullshit hr department
  - lylejantzi3rd 4y ago
    > I don't see how these ridiculous occult rituals mitigate risk. They don't, but they make the hiring manager feel like it does. It calms the lizard part of the brain.

thunkshift1 4y ago

The only meaningful change will come when interviewees (us) stop putting up with this bs. I don’t know why but all of tech seems to be loathe to any collective/community action even when it is strongly in their favor. When a large enough number of people start refusing interviews citing ridiculous interview processes, then the hiring process will change.

kyleee 4y ago
So, never, basically. There will always be lots of people willing to jump through lots of hoops for a chance at such a relatively high level of comp

l3uwin 4y ago

[dead]