5 ms·

Conversations (XMPP Client) is now a UnifiedPush distributor

133 points by karmanyaahm 4y ago

ryukafalz 4y ago
This is amazing! I love to see things like this, because push notifications are always a sticking point on mobile devices that aren't tied to Apple or Google. And this looks like it'll make it easier to get started if you already have an XMPP account.
- Reitet00 4y ago
  Indeed. It seems FluffyChat (Matrix client) can now use Conversations for push notifications delivery.
  - ralls_ebfe 4y ago
    That's an interesting development, thank you.
  - wereallterrrist 4y ago
    Leveraging XMPP to deliver notifications for Matrix feels like an odd matchup. Or is that just because Synapse + FluffyChat support UnifiedPush and the use of XMPP is purely coincidental/incidental? (Trying to wrap my head around the architecture too, with the last sentence there. Presumably the service and client need to know how to talk to the UnifiedPush provider?)
    - karmanyaahm 4y ago
      It is kinda weird. However, at the end of the day, UnifiedPush is just a protocol that allows $heavyProtocolA to receive notifications through $lightProtocolB. And XMPP is just $lightProtocolB, there is nothing stopping an XMPP-based UnifiedPush distributor w/o messaging from existing. If you don't use XMPP for messaging, there are many simpler distributors available.
      - WGH_ 4y ago
        Is it really about light vs. heavy though? I thought it was mostly about multiplexing notifications through a single app (usually through a single connection as well), so only one app has to consume resources constantly, and others might be activated as needed.
        ryukafalz 4y ago
        It's a little bit of both. You want to only keep one connection open as it minimizes the amount of network activity for e.g. keepalives. You also don't want the app holding that connection open to drain the battery in the process though.
gary_0 4y ago
I'm not a mobile developer (or heavy mobile user). Can someone ELI65?
- karmanyaahm 4y ago
  My recent F-Droid blog post explained what UnifiedPush is in detail, basically: > until now, the only option for push notifications was Google’s proprietary service, Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM). UnifiedPush is a new alternative that allows you to get push notifications without being tied to a single company. > Applications that support UnifiedPush can receive notifications via a dedicated UnifiedPush application that maintains a single server connection to receive all notifications. We call this “UnifiedPush application” a distributor; Conversations is now a distributor, and UnifiedPush-supporting apps like Element or Tusy can receive notifications through it. https://f-droid.org/en/2022/12/18/unifiedpush.html https://f-droid.org/en/2022/12/18/unifiedpush.html
  - codetrotter 4y ago
    Does this work on iOS also?
    - gary_0 4y ago
      Nope: https://unifiedpush.org/users/faq/#will-unifiedpush-ever-work-on-ios https://unifiedpush.org/users/faq/#will-unifiedpush-ever-wor...
      - Spivak 4y ago
        It seems kinda silly to just not provide an abstraction over Apple/Google notifications like Pushover does and then provide opportunistic use of new network. If you compromise your ideals like a tiny bit you can build your network and be ubiquitous.
        MattJ100 4y ago
        It's not about ideals, but technical limitations. UnifiedPush isn't an app like Pushover. It's plumbing/APIs for delivering notifications to apps, and it replaces the plumbing provided by the OS vendors. However, that's simply not possible on iOS (or if it is, as they say in the FAQ entry, please share how!). If all you want is to get a generic message in front of a user, UnifiedPush isn't what you're looking for - just use Pushover, ntfy.sh apps or whatever for that. They use Apple's push notification APIs.
aguywithguile 4y ago
I've been using this for a day or so since it came out as a replacement for ntfy. It's been really solid so far and means I only have 2 apps that wake my phone up -- conversations (provides notifications for irc and fediverse stuff) and fair email. I'm really hoping something comes along to provide email with webpush/unifiedpush notifications.
- inputmice 4y ago
  JMAP (IMAP+Submission replacement) has support for WebPush. If I have a minute I’ll implement UnifiedPush in https://Ltt.rs https://Ltt.rs - Sadly JMAP doesn’t have a lot of server implementations. (Yet? Maybe)
  - aguywithguile 4y ago
    That'd be quite cool :) I've been using maddy for a self hosted mail server, itd be nice to replace it with stalwart and give ltt.rs a try... and convince the hosted mail i use to start using a JMAP supported server
  - riedel 4y ago
    AFAIK Cyrus has JMAP support. We are using it for more than 20 years at work without any issues. However, we are lacking compelling client support for JMAP (via using SoGo via IMAP currently). Would be great to have a good static webclient for security reasons. Configurable notifications would be another plus.
snapplebobapple 4y ago
xmpp is great. I just wish the clients were better/more interoperable/more unified on sharing organization information. For example, gajim has these great workspaces where you can group conversations but it's all local to that install of gajim and it doesn't appear to be durable across closing conversations and getting new messages. As a messaging protocol it appears to work well, it was relatively easy to get it running (although not as easy as matrix) and slidge is coming along nicely to provide interoperability with other chat platforms.
MayeulC 4y ago
I also wish it was an UnifiedPush client too!

133 points by karmanyaahm 4y ago

This is amazing! I love to see things like this, because push notifications are always a sticking point on mobile devices that aren't tied to Apple or Google. And this looks like it'll make it easier to get started if you already have an XMPP account.

Reitet00 4y ago
Indeed. It seems FluffyChat (Matrix client) can now use Conversations for push notifications delivery.
- ralls_ebfe 4y ago
  That's an interesting development, thank you.
- wereallterrrist 4y ago
  Leveraging XMPP to deliver notifications for Matrix feels like an odd matchup. Or is that just because Synapse + FluffyChat support UnifiedPush and the use of XMPP is purely coincidental/incidental? (Trying to wrap my head around the architecture too, with the last sentence there. Presumably the service and client need to know how to talk to the UnifiedPush provider?)
  - karmanyaahm 4y ago
    It is kinda weird. However, at the end of the day, UnifiedPush is just a protocol that allows $heavyProtocolA to receive notifications through $lightProtocolB. And XMPP is just $lightProtocolB, there is nothing stopping an XMPP-based UnifiedPush distributor w/o messaging from existing. If you don't use XMPP for messaging, there are many simpler distributors available.
    - WGH_ 4y ago
      Is it really about light vs. heavy though? I thought it was mostly about multiplexing notifications through a single app (usually through a single connection as well), so only one app has to consume resources constantly, and others might be activated as needed.
      - ryukafalz 4y ago
        It's a little bit of both. You want to only keep one connection open as it minimizes the amount of network activity for e.g. keepalives. You also don't want the app holding that connection open to drain the battery in the process though.

gary_0 4y ago

I'm not a mobile developer (or heavy mobile user). Can someone ELI65?

karmanyaahm 4y ago
My recent F-Droid blog post explained what UnifiedPush is in detail, basically: > until now, the only option for push notifications was Google’s proprietary service, Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM). UnifiedPush is a new alternative that allows you to get push notifications without being tied to a single company. > Applications that support UnifiedPush can receive notifications via a dedicated UnifiedPush application that maintains a single server connection to receive all notifications. We call this “UnifiedPush application” a distributor; Conversations is now a distributor, and UnifiedPush-supporting apps like Element or Tusy can receive notifications through it. https://f-droid.org/en/2022/12/18/unifiedpush.html https://f-droid.org/en/2022/12/18/unifiedpush.html
- codetrotter 4y ago
  Does this work on iOS also?
  - gary_0 4y ago
    Nope: https://unifiedpush.org/users/faq/#will-unifiedpush-ever-work-on-ios https://unifiedpush.org/users/faq/#will-unifiedpush-ever-wor...
    - Spivak 4y ago
      It seems kinda silly to just not provide an abstraction over Apple/Google notifications like Pushover does and then provide opportunistic use of new network. If you compromise your ideals like a tiny bit you can build your network and be ubiquitous.
      - MattJ100 4y ago
        It's not about ideals, but technical limitations. UnifiedPush isn't an app like Pushover. It's plumbing/APIs for delivering notifications to apps, and it replaces the plumbing provided by the OS vendors. However, that's simply not possible on iOS (or if it is, as they say in the FAQ entry, please share how!). If all you want is to get a generic message in front of a user, UnifiedPush isn't what you're looking for - just use Pushover, ntfy.sh apps or whatever for that. They use Apple's push notification APIs.

aguywithguile 4y ago

I've been using this for a day or so since it came out as a replacement for ntfy. It's been really solid so far and means I only have 2 apps that wake my phone up -- conversations (provides notifications for irc and fediverse stuff) and fair email. I'm really hoping something comes along to provide email with webpush/unifiedpush notifications.

inputmice 4y ago
JMAP (IMAP+Submission replacement) has support for WebPush. If I have a minute I’ll implement UnifiedPush in https://Ltt.rs https://Ltt.rs - Sadly JMAP doesn’t have a lot of server implementations. (Yet? Maybe)
- aguywithguile 4y ago
  That'd be quite cool :) I've been using maddy for a self hosted mail server, itd be nice to replace it with stalwart and give ltt.rs a try... and convince the hosted mail i use to start using a JMAP supported server
- riedel 4y ago
  AFAIK Cyrus has JMAP support. We are using it for more than 20 years at work without any issues. However, we are lacking compelling client support for JMAP (via using SoGo via IMAP currently). Would be great to have a good static webclient for security reasons. Configurable notifications would be another plus.

snapplebobapple 4y ago

xmpp is great. I just wish the clients were better/more interoperable/more unified on sharing organization information. For example, gajim has these great workspaces where you can group conversations but it's all local to that install of gajim and it doesn't appear to be durable across closing conversations and getting new messages. As a messaging protocol it appears to work well, it was relatively easy to get it running (although not as easy as matrix) and slidge is coming along nicely to provide interoperability with other chat platforms.

MayeulC 4y ago

I also wish it was an UnifiedPush client too!