4 ms·

>Agency officials are attempting to determine whether the two people made the changes accidentally or intentionally, and if there was any malicious intent, the

by r721 4y ago

>Agency officials are attempting to determine whether the two people made the changes accidentally or intentionally, and if there was any malicious intent, the person said.

cratermoon 4y ago
I've worked with my share of utter fools in software development. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. People are remarkably failure-prone in the absence of controls and guardrails. Sadly, I suspect the individuals will get the rap instead of whatever crap process made it possible for the changes to pass muster and get into production without being caught and corrected.
- lampshades 4y ago
  I’m in complete agreement with you. Could you imagine 2 contractors from somewhere like Accenture, who are already underpaid and overworked, not making a mistake?
  - greggarious 4y ago
    No, I cannot picture someone from ACN failing to make a mistake. Malicious changes to the IT systems were done outside the FAA by messing directly with the elections of officials who run federal agencies like the FAA. Americans always look for a movie plot when the very real threats to “the homeland” looking to abuse their access are operating in the open and have been for many years… and they’re not low level software engineers.
    - goodSteveramos 4y ago
      Couldn’t agree more. Its totally insane that backwards middle eastern billionaires are allowed to just buy up American tech and media companies. At least this one has a sense of humor. https://twitter.com/Alwaleed_Talal/status/1585975226567110656 https://twitter.com/Alwaleed_Talal/status/158597522656711065... @Alwaleed_Talal Dear friend "Chief Twit" @elonmusk Together all the way @Twitter
      - readonthegoapp 4y ago
        i don't know that dude in particular, but 'backwards middle eastern' sounds a bit racist. for instance, maybe that person has said something kind of evil, imo -- like maybe that an entire country should be ceded to some other country -- but even then i wouldn't want to overgeneralize -- i def don't like being associated with the most famous/rich americans when i go abroad, or interact online. but i would agree generally that non-us investors buying up us politicians, pr firms, and tech and media companies is something we/us should be careful about.
        goodSteveramos 4y ago
        >i def don't like being associated with the most famous/rich americans On some level Americans are responsible for what our government and economic leaders do. We cant identify as and benefit from being Americans and then chide other groups for being racist when they complain about what our leaders do in our name. The reverse is equally true
        mistrial9 4y ago
        you have it completely backwards and I can show it the people that pushed, bragged and elbowed their way into executive management at a massive, eternally funded bureacracy are experts at disregarding the viewpoint, input and most of all directions from others The first thing to do in such a position is to reward an inner loyal circle by increasing their benefits, authority and lessen the actual work, via contractors. This thread shows anecdotal evidence that setups involve far more than half the working headcount as contractors. The contractors do real work, take real blame, and are routinely pushed around since that is what people really do to each other. At what stage of any of this do "we" take responsibility and make change?!? it is fortified income protection, not responsive systems, described here..
- hedora 4y ago
  I suggest reading the Simple Sabotage Field Manual; the individual and organizational behaviors you are describing are indistinguishable from those of a skilled saboteur: https://archive.org/download/SimpleSabotageFieldManualStrategicServicesProvisional/SimpleSabotageFieldManualStrategicServicesProvisional.pdf https://archive.org/download/SimpleSabotageFieldManualStrate...
  - r00fus 4y ago
    Ah yes - gray's law [1] applies here: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." Fact remains that a system wherein this is possible is a system that has been exploited. Marshaling the forces to fix the system is the preferred outcome, unless you want the system to remain exploited (ie, you benefit from the situation). [1] http://wikidumper.blogspot.com/2007/07/greys-law.html http://wikidumper.blogspot.com/2007/07/greys-law.html
    - cratermoon 4y ago
      I think the comment you're replying to is trying to say something about the management being compromised, deliberately hiring incompetent people and being lax about controls, and wanting the failures to happen for some unspecified conspiratorial reason. That merely bumps the question up another level, it's a question of malice or incompetence. Conspiracy theories tend to end up invoking some shadowy malicious cabal at the highest levels, above even leaders of nation-states, to explain just plain old human nature.
      - goodSteveramos 4y ago
        When a society is run by people who care only for their own small wealthy in-group and nothing for the common good all kinds of incompetence is bound to ensue. It doesn't take a tin foil hat to see how that has happened to America.
        robocat 4y ago
        > When a society is run by people I tend to find that idea is adjacent to conspiracy thinking. If society is being “run” by anybody then either (a) they could do a much better job of it for themselves, or (b) they are very good at hiding. “Powerful” people seem to often have the same problems as the rest of us: they seem to be on the receiving end of systemic issues they don’t understand as much as any of us, they often work long hours, they still get tragic family issues and chronic health issues.

by r721 4y ago

>Agency officials are attempting to determine whether the two people made the changes accidentally or intentionally, and if there was any malicious intent, the person said.

cratermoon 4y ago

I've worked with my share of utter fools in software development. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. People are remarkably failure-prone in the absence of controls and guardrails. Sadly, I suspect the individuals will get the rap instead of whatever crap process made it possible for the changes to pass muster and get into production without being caught and corrected.

lampshades 4y ago
I’m in complete agreement with you. Could you imagine 2 contractors from somewhere like Accenture, who are already underpaid and overworked, not making a mistake?
- greggarious 4y ago
  No, I cannot picture someone from ACN failing to make a mistake. Malicious changes to the IT systems were done outside the FAA by messing directly with the elections of officials who run federal agencies like the FAA. Americans always look for a movie plot when the very real threats to “the homeland” looking to abuse their access are operating in the open and have been for many years… and they’re not low level software engineers.
  - goodSteveramos 4y ago
    Couldn’t agree more. Its totally insane that backwards middle eastern billionaires are allowed to just buy up American tech and media companies. At least this one has a sense of humor. https://twitter.com/Alwaleed_Talal/status/1585975226567110656 https://twitter.com/Alwaleed_Talal/status/158597522656711065... @Alwaleed_Talal Dear friend "Chief Twit" @elonmusk Together all the way @Twitter
    - readonthegoapp 4y ago
      i don't know that dude in particular, but 'backwards middle eastern' sounds a bit racist. for instance, maybe that person has said something kind of evil, imo -- like maybe that an entire country should be ceded to some other country -- but even then i wouldn't want to overgeneralize -- i def don't like being associated with the most famous/rich americans when i go abroad, or interact online. but i would agree generally that non-us investors buying up us politicians, pr firms, and tech and media companies is something we/us should be careful about.
      - goodSteveramos 4y ago
        >i def don't like being associated with the most famous/rich americans On some level Americans are responsible for what our government and economic leaders do. We cant identify as and benefit from being Americans and then chide other groups for being racist when they complain about what our leaders do in our name. The reverse is equally true
        mistrial9 4y ago
        you have it completely backwards and I can show it the people that pushed, bragged and elbowed their way into executive management at a massive, eternally funded bureacracy are experts at disregarding the viewpoint, input and most of all directions from others The first thing to do in such a position is to reward an inner loyal circle by increasing their benefits, authority and lessen the actual work, via contractors. This thread shows anecdotal evidence that setups involve far more than half the working headcount as contractors. The contractors do real work, take real blame, and are routinely pushed around since that is what people really do to each other. At what stage of any of this do "we" take responsibility and make change?!? it is fortified income protection, not responsive systems, described here..
hedora 4y ago
I suggest reading the Simple Sabotage Field Manual; the individual and organizational behaviors you are describing are indistinguishable from those of a skilled saboteur: https://archive.org/download/SimpleSabotageFieldManualStrategicServicesProvisional/SimpleSabotageFieldManualStrategicServicesProvisional.pdf https://archive.org/download/SimpleSabotageFieldManualStrate...
- r00fus 4y ago
  Ah yes - gray's law [1] applies here: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." Fact remains that a system wherein this is possible is a system that has been exploited. Marshaling the forces to fix the system is the preferred outcome, unless you want the system to remain exploited (ie, you benefit from the situation). [1] http://wikidumper.blogspot.com/2007/07/greys-law.html http://wikidumper.blogspot.com/2007/07/greys-law.html
  - cratermoon 4y ago
    I think the comment you're replying to is trying to say something about the management being compromised, deliberately hiring incompetent people and being lax about controls, and wanting the failures to happen for some unspecified conspiratorial reason. That merely bumps the question up another level, it's a question of malice or incompetence. Conspiracy theories tend to end up invoking some shadowy malicious cabal at the highest levels, above even leaders of nation-states, to explain just plain old human nature.
    - goodSteveramos 4y ago
      When a society is run by people who care only for their own small wealthy in-group and nothing for the common good all kinds of incompetence is bound to ensue. It doesn't take a tin foil hat to see how that has happened to America.
      - robocat 4y ago
        > When a society is run by people I tend to find that idea is adjacent to conspiracy thinking. If society is being “run” by anybody then either (a) they could do a much better job of it for themselves, or (b) they are very good at hiding. “Powerful” people seem to often have the same problems as the rest of us: they seem to be on the receiving end of systemic issues they don’t understand as much as any of us, they often work long hours, they still get tragic family issues and chronic health issues.