5 ms·

The police want all data, then they'll find the crimes. This goes against our country's presumption of innocence. Look at the recent case of the facial recognit

The police want all data, then they'll find the crimes. This goes against our country's presumption of innocence. Look at the recent case of the facial recognition and the Rockettes. A lady was trying to go to a holiday show as a private individual but was digitally black listed and kicked out as soon as she entered because she is employed by a law firm engaged in a lawsuit against MSG (who owns RCMH). I understand this is a private venue and not police but the principle is the same. She wasn't caught hacking anything or breaking in to anything she just wanted to see the dancers. The big problem with geo fence warrants is that they lead to a 1984 style big brother surveillance state. For example: should the police constantly get everyone's cell phone tower ping data and automatically issue speeding tickets for every 5 minute window someone was speeding?

krapp 4y ago
It doesn't go against presumption of innocence because the police don't determine legal innocence or guilt. If we get to the point where that becomes the case, where for instance anyone caught up in a geofence warrant is automatically convicted of a crime in absentia and without any other evidence, then that's obviously a problem.
- fn-mote 4y ago
  This is technically correct and totally naive. > If we get to the point where that becomes the case [...] Then it will be far too late to do anything about it. You're obviously going to be convicted of speeding if your geolocation data shows you going 80mph for an hour on the expressway, right? Do you really want to wait until this case shows up in court to try to prevent this kind of dystopia from emerging? See the current top post about individualized suspicion.
  - mcculley 4y ago
    > You're obviously going to be convicted of speeding if your geolocation data shows you going 80mph for an hour on the expressway, right? Do you really want to wait until this case shows up in court to try to prevent this kind of dystopia from emerging? You might want to conjure up a different example. I am having trouble considering enforcement of speed limits to be dystopian.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > You're obviously going to be convicted of speeding if your geolocation data shows you going 80mph for an hour on the expressway, right? There are toll roads all around the US that conclusively prove tens of millions of people are speeding every day for many decades now, just from the entry and exit point time data. Government leaders have yet to start mailing everyone automated speeding tickets.
  - acdha 4y ago
    Fair enforcement of democratically enacted laws isn’t dystopian and it’d save thousands of lives annually, too, so it’s hard to say it wouldn’t have a clear benefit directly linked to the activity. What would be dystopian would be if that data collection was applied to protected activity or especially to unrelated activities: your attendance at a non-violent protest leading to your student loan rates going up, a religious prosecutor starting to “preemptively” investigate teachers & other government employees who went to a Pride parade, etc.

krapp 4y ago

It doesn't go against presumption of innocence because the police don't determine legal innocence or guilt. If we get to the point where that becomes the case, where for instance anyone caught up in a geofence warrant is automatically convicted of a crime in absentia and without any other evidence, then that's obviously a problem.

fn-mote 4y ago
This is technically correct and totally naive. > If we get to the point where that becomes the case [...] Then it will be far too late to do anything about it. You're obviously going to be convicted of speeding if your geolocation data shows you going 80mph for an hour on the expressway, right? Do you really want to wait until this case shows up in court to try to prevent this kind of dystopia from emerging? See the current top post about individualized suspicion.
- mcculley 4y ago
  > You're obviously going to be convicted of speeding if your geolocation data shows you going 80mph for an hour on the expressway, right? Do you really want to wait until this case shows up in court to try to prevent this kind of dystopia from emerging? You might want to conjure up a different example. I am having trouble considering enforcement of speed limits to be dystopian.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  > You're obviously going to be convicted of speeding if your geolocation data shows you going 80mph for an hour on the expressway, right? There are toll roads all around the US that conclusively prove tens of millions of people are speeding every day for many decades now, just from the entry and exit point time data. Government leaders have yet to start mailing everyone automated speeding tickets.
- acdha 4y ago
  Fair enforcement of democratically enacted laws isn’t dystopian and it’d save thousands of lives annually, too, so it’s hard to say it wouldn’t have a clear benefit directly linked to the activity. What would be dystopian would be if that data collection was applied to protected activity or especially to unrelated activities: your attendance at a non-violent protest leading to your student loan rates going up, a religious prosecutor starting to “preemptively” investigate teachers & other government employees who went to a Pride parade, etc.