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iOS development has to be performed exclusively under macOS. Effectively, many iOS developers not only do not want to pay for Apple hardware that is usually gro

iOS development has to be performed exclusively under macOS. Effectively, many iOS developers not only do not want to pay for Apple hardware that is usually grossly overpriced for its capabilities, but also strongly desire to use absolutely top-of-the-line non-Apple hardware that is way more powerful than what Apple is offering, to run their daily macOS development workstations. ... And hacking entire operating systems under virtual machines is just fun :).

Maursault 4y ago
> do not want to pay for Apple hardware that is usually grossly overpriced for its capabilities This is the myth that just won't die even though every fair comparison of Mac hardware to available PC hardware, carefully matching feature for feature, reveals prices within $100 of each other. What you don't want to pay for is the features that you're not interested in, such as perhaps Thunderbolt ports.
- deadlocked 4y ago
  And of course the physical characteristics - yes, that ASUS laptop has the same or a slightly better technical spec than the MacBook Pro that I want, but it's also made out of plastic and it's half-an-inch thick!
- gary17the 4y ago
  I don't know about cost effectiveness of Apple laptops, since I never use small-screen devices for daily work, but if you are willing to put together a desktop workstation with your own hands from components you hunt down individually at online sales and install the free Linux, you will not spend even half of the cost of a Mac Pro, which has not even been upgraded by Apple since 2019. The 2023 Mac Pro is to cost from $6K to the insane $10K.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    > if you are willing to put together a desktop workstation with your own hands from components you hunt down individually at online sales and install the free Linux, you will not spend even half of the cost of a Mac Pro Show me this put together beige box, and I will show you a machine with missing features found in the Mac Pro. Then you will say, "I didn't want that stuff, I would never use it," but when added in, the prices will be within a close margin.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - gary17the 4y ago
      > when [all Apple-chosen hardware features] [are] added in, the prices will be within a close margin I do see your point, but even if that's so, the problem of Apple hardware inaccessibility to an average computer hardware buyer cannot be considered as "resolved" or "unavoidable", but only pivots from the circumstance of "Apple forcing high profit margins on hardware buyers" to "Apple forcing a set of (unwanted, yet costly) hardware features on hardware buyers" (through the lack of appropriately varied hardware models and hardware configuration options). Which is too bad, because if Apple hardware was appropriately inexpensive while delivering the features that I do care about, I would probably consider switching to their hardware and macOS as my primary O/S. (... But then again, maybe not - I really like the latest Linux KDE/Plasma.)
      - Maursault 4y ago
        Then margin on Macintosh hardware is notorious for being slim. Where it seems they make their money is in the options for more RAM and larger storage. But Apple doesn't make much profit on the base configurations of any Mac, and until they started charging a premium for more RAM or storage, Apple didn't make much profit on any Mac configuration. Apple's history bears this out, as Apple only started growing wildly with the introduction of iPod and iTunes Store, and again with the introduction of iPhone and iPad.
    - jjeaff 4y ago
      To me, because those expensive extra features on a Mac are not optional, I still consider it way overpriced. The only reason many of those little extra boosts are so expensive is because they simply aren't broadly in demand.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Checks clipboard Apple still makes a 40-50% margin on every iPhone sold. The iPhone could be the cheapest smartphone around, and it would still be generally agreeable that Apple has enormous profit margins.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    Try 119% margin. It costs Apple $501 to make an iPhone 14 Pro Max, and the company sells it at a base price of $1099. But that is iPhone, not Mac. Apple's net profit margin as of September 30, 2022 is 25.31%, and that is due to their razor thin margins selling Macintosh hardware.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Interesting, guess that makes sense with TSMC charging them out the ass.
pjmlp 4y ago
Those aren't part of what means to be part of Apple culture, rather UNIX folks that would do better sponsoring Linux/BSD OEMs. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233647272_The_Cult_of_Macintosh https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233647272_The_Cult_...

Maursault 4y ago

> do not want to pay for Apple hardware that is usually grossly overpriced for its capabilities This is the myth that just won't die even though every fair comparison of Mac hardware to available PC hardware, carefully matching feature for feature, reveals prices within $100 of each other. What you don't want to pay for is the features that you're not interested in, such as perhaps Thunderbolt ports.

deadlocked 4y ago
And of course the physical characteristics - yes, that ASUS laptop has the same or a slightly better technical spec than the MacBook Pro that I want, but it's also made out of plastic and it's half-an-inch thick!
gary17the 4y ago
I don't know about cost effectiveness of Apple laptops, since I never use small-screen devices for daily work, but if you are willing to put together a desktop workstation with your own hands from components you hunt down individually at online sales and install the free Linux, you will not spend even half of the cost of a Mac Pro, which has not even been upgraded by Apple since 2019. The 2023 Mac Pro is to cost from $6K to the insane $10K.
- Maursault 4y ago
  > if you are willing to put together a desktop workstation with your own hands from components you hunt down individually at online sales and install the free Linux, you will not spend even half of the cost of a Mac Pro Show me this put together beige box, and I will show you a machine with missing features found in the Mac Pro. Then you will say, "I didn't want that stuff, I would never use it," but when added in, the prices will be within a close margin.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - gary17the 4y ago
    > when [all Apple-chosen hardware features] [are] added in, the prices will be within a close margin I do see your point, but even if that's so, the problem of Apple hardware inaccessibility to an average computer hardware buyer cannot be considered as "resolved" or "unavoidable", but only pivots from the circumstance of "Apple forcing high profit margins on hardware buyers" to "Apple forcing a set of (unwanted, yet costly) hardware features on hardware buyers" (through the lack of appropriately varied hardware models and hardware configuration options). Which is too bad, because if Apple hardware was appropriately inexpensive while delivering the features that I do care about, I would probably consider switching to their hardware and macOS as my primary O/S. (... But then again, maybe not - I really like the latest Linux KDE/Plasma.)
    - Maursault 4y ago
      Then margin on Macintosh hardware is notorious for being slim. Where it seems they make their money is in the options for more RAM and larger storage. But Apple doesn't make much profit on the base configurations of any Mac, and until they started charging a premium for more RAM or storage, Apple didn't make much profit on any Mac configuration. Apple's history bears this out, as Apple only started growing wildly with the introduction of iPod and iTunes Store, and again with the introduction of iPhone and iPad.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    To me, because those expensive extra features on a Mac are not optional, I still consider it way overpriced. The only reason many of those little extra boosts are so expensive is because they simply aren't broadly in demand.
smoldesu 4y ago
Checks clipboard Apple still makes a 40-50% margin on every iPhone sold. The iPhone could be the cheapest smartphone around, and it would still be generally agreeable that Apple has enormous profit margins.
- Maursault 4y ago
  Try 119% margin. It costs Apple $501 to make an iPhone 14 Pro Max, and the company sells it at a base price of $1099. But that is iPhone, not Mac. Apple's net profit margin as of September 30, 2022 is 25.31%, and that is due to their razor thin margins selling Macintosh hardware.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Interesting, guess that makes sense with TSMC charging them out the ass.

pjmlp 4y ago

Those aren't part of what means to be part of Apple culture, rather UNIX folks that would do better sponsoring Linux/BSD OEMs. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233647272_The_Cult_of_Macintosh https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233647272_The_Cult_...