8 ms·

Need to keep the story in the news cycle through 2024

by pxmpxm 4y ago

pseudolus 4y ago
It's deeply regrettable that both sides of the political spectrum are so caught up in their particular narratives that they can't see potential erosion of civil rights that these law enforcement techniques bring about. On parts of the left, segments are grateful for these technologies because they allow for the arrest of individuals who they perceive as having attempted to overthrow democracy. Segments of the right are blinded and can't focus on the means and methods undertaken by law enforcement because they can't overcome their rage at what they perceive as an overblown and partisan response to the events of the riot.
- xwolfi 4y ago
  What of the population living day after day in a dangerous world ? Do they prefer civil right preservation or police oversight ? I get the politicians in D.C. might have trouble to see what's in front of them, but Im unsure the population is so against it.
  - Geezus-42 4y ago
    I for one would prefer civil rights. The most dangerous people I have ever met were cops. I can protect myself from the individual non-state backed fascist.
    - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
      > I can protect myself from the individual non-state backed fascist. Perhaps you can. History has shown that most people cannot.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    I agree. I think most people have a “if you’re not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about” view on this. Naively trusting that whoever has authority can be trusted indefinitely. But it’s an easier point to make than an abstract view of personal liberties and protections from abusive power. Some kid (I suspect) wrote a naughty racist word on sone piece of playground equipment (easily cleaned off) and the reaction by people on an unofficial town FB group were amazing. One person called for cameras everywhere and the imprisonment of parents if their kid was recorded writing a racist or w/e word. Hell the whole defund the police thing started turning into an alternative where there are cameras everywhere. I’m pretty sure that will be the future.
- Forge36 4y ago
  How many people need to be involved and how large the area before geofencing is used as an investigation tool? I'd set the current bar lower than the capital riots. Though how low is reasonable I don't know. I'm definitely opposed to finding a single individual, and an entire city. But I don't know how I'd feel about a single small building (say for a mass shooter event)
- ModernMech 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - commandlinefan 4y ago
    > the Republican party Nobody even remotely affiliated with the Republican Party was involved in any actual insurrection attempt on 1/6.
    - cycrutchfield 4y ago
      “No True Republican” fallacy?
    - ModernMech 4y ago
      You should really read the bipartisan 1/6 committee report. At the very least what you say isn't true because there wouldn't have been a mob in DC on 1/6 if Trump hadn't asked them to be there. How many people travelled from around the country to be in DC on 1/6/2017? Or 2009? Everyone gets there for the 20th for the inauguration, whereas historically the 6th has been ignored. But in 2021 everyone was there on that day, at the express invitation of Trump. Don't take my word for it - you just have to look at the court proceedings for the 1/6 prosecutions, where defendant after defendant pleads that they are not at fault because they were just taking directions from the President. But what you say is further untrue because there were plenty of Republicans involved beyond that. The White House was responsible for helping organize the Stop the Steal rally, at which multiple high-ranking Republican party members spoke. Beyond that, multiple congresspeople and senators objected to certifications, not because they had any basis for their objections, but in order to delay the proceeding and give Trump time to rile the mob. State GOP lawmakers forged Certificates of the Vote electing Trump that Pence was intended to substitute for the authentic ones. GOP Senators were involved in the process to transmit these certificates to Pence in time. Giuliani was busy calling lawmakers during the insurrection imploring them to delay the vote further as the mob bore down on them. Trump sat back and refused to deploy any National Guard troops, to the point Pence had to usurp control and do it himself after waiting 3 hours. Again, read the 1/6 report. It's all in there.
    - acdha 4y ago

Need to keep the story in the news cycle through 2024

by pxmpxm 4y ago

Need to keep the story in the news cycle through 2024

It's deeply regrettable that both sides of the political spectrum are so caught up in their particular narratives that they can't see potential erosion of civil rights that these law enforcement techniques bring about. On parts of the left, segments are grateful for these technologies because they allow for the arrest of individuals who they perceive as having attempted to overthrow democracy. Segments of the right are blinded and can't focus on the means and methods undertaken by law enforcement because they can't overcome their rage at what they perceive as an overblown and partisan response to the events of the riot.

xwolfi 4y ago
What of the population living day after day in a dangerous world ? Do they prefer civil right preservation or police oversight ? I get the politicians in D.C. might have trouble to see what's in front of them, but Im unsure the population is so against it.
- Geezus-42 4y ago
  I for one would prefer civil rights. The most dangerous people I have ever met were cops. I can protect myself from the individual non-state backed fascist.
  - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    > I can protect myself from the individual non-state backed fascist. Perhaps you can. History has shown that most people cannot.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  I agree. I think most people have a “if you’re not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about” view on this. Naively trusting that whoever has authority can be trusted indefinitely. But it’s an easier point to make than an abstract view of personal liberties and protections from abusive power. Some kid (I suspect) wrote a naughty racist word on sone piece of playground equipment (easily cleaned off) and the reaction by people on an unofficial town FB group were amazing. One person called for cameras everywhere and the imprisonment of parents if their kid was recorded writing a racist or w/e word. Hell the whole defund the police thing started turning into an alternative where there are cameras everywhere. I’m pretty sure that will be the future.
Forge36 4y ago
How many people need to be involved and how large the area before geofencing is used as an investigation tool? I'd set the current bar lower than the capital riots. Though how low is reasonable I don't know. I'm definitely opposed to finding a single individual, and an entire city. But I don't know how I'd feel about a single small building (say for a mass shooter event)
ModernMech 4y ago
[flagged]
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  > the Republican party Nobody even remotely affiliated with the Republican Party was involved in any actual insurrection attempt on 1/6.
  - cycrutchfield 4y ago
    “No True Republican” fallacy?
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    You should really read the bipartisan 1/6 committee report. At the very least what you say isn't true because there wouldn't have been a mob in DC on 1/6 if Trump hadn't asked them to be there. How many people travelled from around the country to be in DC on 1/6/2017? Or 2009? Everyone gets there for the 20th for the inauguration, whereas historically the 6th has been ignored. But in 2021 everyone was there on that day, at the express invitation of Trump. Don't take my word for it - you just have to look at the court proceedings for the 1/6 prosecutions, where defendant after defendant pleads that they are not at fault because they were just taking directions from the President. But what you say is further untrue because there were plenty of Republicans involved beyond that. The White House was responsible for helping organize the Stop the Steal rally, at which multiple high-ranking Republican party members spoke. Beyond that, multiple congresspeople and senators objected to certifications, not because they had any basis for their objections, but in order to delay the proceeding and give Trump time to rile the mob. State GOP lawmakers forged Certificates of the Vote electing Trump that Pence was intended to substitute for the authentic ones. GOP Senators were involved in the process to transmit these certificates to Pence in time. Giuliani was busy calling lawmakers during the insurrection imploring them to delay the vote further as the mob bore down on them. Trump sat back and refused to deploy any National Guard troops, to the point Pence had to usurp control and do it himself after waiting 3 hours. Again, read the 1/6 report. It's all in there.
  - acdha 4y ago