6 ms·

Hrm, I'm in my 40s. I got a criminal record at 20 for being caught in a club with 3 pills. It still didn't stop me. I continued doing Es for a long time. It was

Hrm, I'm in my 40s. I got a criminal record at 20 for being caught in a club with 3 pills. It still didn't stop me. I continued doing Es for a long time. It was good at the time but I wish I hadn't done them. It's like a lot of other drugs, once you've done it everything becomes dull without it. I used to think about them all the time. Until it got to the point were I hated them. The come downs became horrific (once you've done a lot of them, hangovers don't come close). I was given some mdma at a festival 5 years ago. I hated it. It was strong but I hated the feeling of being out of my mind. Mainly I think all I got out of it was a ruined short term memory and wasted time recovering from endless nights out. I don't look back with rose tinted specs. I regret it.

noodleman 4y ago
Well said. These drug-positive articles never appropriately discuss the negative side effects of the lifestyle in a way that seems realistic. Several people from my youth never made it to adulthood to regret the things they did as a result of drugs. Even "harmless" drugs like MDMA have consequences.
- _a_a_a_ 4y ago
  Only a fool would consider any drug harmless, obviously all (including MDMA) can have consequences.
  - dustymcp 4y ago
    Anything is dangerous if you are reckless, i bet druguse with proper guidance would be way better than the advice you get in the trailerpark.
  - MacsHeadroom 4y ago
    Recreational horseback riding is statistically more deadly and more likely to result in serious injury than ecstasy use. [0] Of course everything has risks. But nobody demands an article about the pleasures of equestrianism to include a warning about traumatic brain injury and paralysis risks. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/11/drugs-alcohol-drugs-policy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/11/drugs-...
    - bennysonething 4y ago
      David nutt is brilliant. I loved his book drink. However I think that horse riding Vs mdma point is a bit limited. I think there are dangers worth facing as the overall experience probably helps you grow as person, so horse riding has the dangers, the skills, the discipline and the responsibilities that go with it. In my mdma taking years I don't think I met anyone who benefited from it. In fact I know of quite the opposite. Edit: btw I think all drugs should be decriminalised.
- arcturus17 4y ago
  There’s much more literature and comment on the negative aspects of drug use IMO. I’d agree that discussing only the upsides in a general debate would be stupid, even unethical. But on a personal account? Probably not. Believe it or not, some people can have very positive interactions from regular drug use. I’ve used E and mushrooms maybe a few dozen times each and I don’t have anything bad to say except the brutal comedowns with E the next day, and an upset tummy with shrooms. Can’t say the same with weed or alcohol - plenty of bad interactions with those. Some people are high-functioning drug users. Look at Joe Rogan, whatever you think of the guy, it’s difficult to object that he’s productive, fit and family-orientated while consuming copious amounts of weed. I would become lazy, unmotivated and depressed if I smoked 1% of what Rogan or other high-functioning stoners smoke, but I think it’s as interesting to know about their stories as it is to hear about people whose lives have been sadly ravaged by drugs.
- idopmstuff 4y ago
  Is it appropriate to discuss the negative side effects in this article? It's clearly a positive article about drugs - that's apparently just from the title. Must every article about a topic cover the positives and the negatives, even when it's a piece relating someone's personal experience that's clearly not intended to be unbiased news or science reporting? Also, would you hold the same standard to drug-negative articles? Must they cover the positive side of drugs in a way that's realistic?
  - noodleman 4y ago
    I won't accuse you of strawmanning but this misrepresents my statement. It's would be weird to drop in figures about drug deaths in this article or something like that. I don't see why that would be relevant. But it'd be good if there was some more critical reflecting done. Perhaps your drug days would be remembered less fondly if a friend died of an OD? Or maybe you were shielded from the criminal elements of drugs. Perhaps you avoided catching any of the lifechanging STDs that run rampant amongst drug users. It's the "it can't possibly happen to me" mentality that these nostalgia-fueled articles have that rubs me the wrong way. With that said, I do think anti-drug messaging needs to confront other positive aspects of drug use, particularly in controlled clinical settings. Many staunch anti-drug people haven't even heard of it because they simply don't encounter it in their usual reading material.
    - bennysonething 4y ago
      The thing that never worked for me in school was messaging like "drugs will kill you". Well yes that's true. But drugs are way more insidious than this. In my experience they are subtle in how they mess with your mind and over all well being. They take away my drive for natural highs, and natural highs are usually good things. For example exercise, accomplishments and learning. The come downs destroy free time. But worst is they seem to reset my happiness level to lower. Small things that should bring joy no longer do. Thankfully those effects have been temporary for me. I'm glad my drug use is over. I was only ever a weekend partier. Still managed to complete a degree and hold down a job. But I'm done with drugs for good.
    - 4y ago
- jmcqk6 4y ago
  The problem is that the consequences are different for every person. We treat drugs as though messing with them has a guaranteed outcome, but it's not true. Drugs effect everyone differently. People use them for different reasons. People experience different outcomes from taking them. You can talk about 'appropriate' but you're assuming that they must talk about the negative aspects. Why? If some people have a positive experience with drugs why do we need to pretend they're lying?
_a_a_a_ 4y ago
Edit: I knew the silent downvotes would come from people who are anti-drug and not willing to even try understanding another's experiences. I gave an honest description, but somehow an honest data point is unacceptable as it goes against what some people want to hear. If you downvote, please explain why because the issues of drug effects, drug value and (il)legalisation need a better discussion than what I keep finding on HN from a subset of people here. Please downvote for a reason, not because you can't accept what I say. <sermon ends, normal service will now be resumed> --- Huh? Sounds like you overdid them big time. No offence but that sounds like a flaw in you, not the drugs (but yeah, that gets complex). > The come downs became horrific (once you've done a lot of them, hangovers don't come close). Double huh? I'm in a comedown from last night's E and... well, there is no comedown. As for 'hangover', I've never had one from E, ever. I seriously don't know what you've been taking. Maybe it just isn't your drug? Edit: it does sound like you seriously overdid it: "once you've done a lot of them" All I can say is your experience has zero intersection with mine. I'm sorry what is wonderful for me didn't work for you.
- slfnflctd 4y ago
  I think the downvotes may be coming from what looks kinda like an ad hominem attack vibe. Could've been phrased a bit less rudely. [I didn't downvote btw, I mostly agree with you.] A lot of people had bad experiences with 'E' for all kinds of reasons, from the old set & setting issue, to overdoing it, to mixing with other drugs, to dirty pills. MDMA clearly has therapeutic value. There are also many people who've had transcendent experiences with it in the wild who absolutely do not regret it. Then there are those in between (one of my best experiences was followed by a massive comedown). Humans are differently abled when it comes to exploring and/or self medicating-- many if not most are likely better off going through establishment health care channels, but those seeking their own paths shouldn't be demonized.
  - _a_a_a_ 4y ago
    Ouch. A re-read and I can see what you mean about it being a bit personal. I wish I'd said it differently. But the experience was simply mine and I wasn't speaking for anyone else. I don't know of anyone who's had a bad time on them, except a couple who it just made them throw up. It was just a data point, and I was not comfortable about the talk of comedowns as if they were inevitable and awful because they aren't. I've no doubt they can be though as you and @Mezzie testify. Thanks for the feedback.
xg15 4y ago
What you said reminded me of the bird video about withdrawal and habituation: https://youtu.be/HUngLgGRJpo https://youtu.be/HUngLgGRJpo (which of course may be biased in the other direction) But that's my stance on drug use as well: It's pretty irrelevant how great your time is while you're on it if it turns your life into hell whenever you're not on it.
- bennysonething 4y ago
  Ha! Exactly that. Never seen that before :)
Nursie 4y ago
Is life still dull? I did ecstasy a number of times in my 20s. All sorts of other things too. In my 40s intense drug experiences no longer appeal, but I enjoy all sorts of facets of life - friends, fine food, the countryside… Maybe I’m just lucky, but this “normal life is all dull” never seems to have hit me. I do miss the odd spliff…
bastawhiz 4y ago
The only thing I have to add is that your MDMA might have been cut with something. Never take anything that you haven't tested, or where you trust the person you got it from to have tested it. Testing is cheap and easy and could save your life. Always know what you're taking.
- wintermutestwin 4y ago
  >Testing is cheap and easy I had a college student who came to me as a trusted adult and asked about E (because their friends were doing it while in the Netherlands). I told them what I knew about the drug and that they should always test it. When asked "how do I do that," I was at a loss and couldn't find any useful info by searching sites that I wasn't afraid to browse. How does one get a legit testing kit without exposing themselves to risk?
  - skyyler 4y ago
    https://rollsafe.org/mdma-test-kits/ https://rollsafe.org/mdma-test-kits/ rollsafe is a fantastic resource for harm reduction information. They have links to test kits from various retailers and instructions on how to use them. They also have a page detailing a stack of supplements you can take to allegedly reduce the neurotoxicity of MDMA. I don’t know about the veracity of that information but the test kit info is spot-on.
    - wintermutestwin 4y ago
      But isn't buying these kits online essentially just a way to add yourself to a list of people who do illegal drugs? Maybe I am just overly paranoid, but I'd hate to see some college kid have their future ruined over something that shouldn't be, but is a crime.
      - Eisenstein 4y ago
        Some paranoia is rational but in this case I would judge the potential risks: (I) extremely low probability of 'future' problems involving ordering testing kits which are not themselves illegal (II) high probability of youths doing illegal drugs (III) extremely high probability of illegal drugs being impure (IV) moderate probability of impurities being dangerous
rendall 4y ago
> once you've done it everything becomes dull without it It sounds like you're saying that life is permanently less interesting. I'm sorry that happened to you. This is not a side effect that I am aware of. Are you sure that this came from the drug? Known side effects are temporary depression (among others). 5-HTP may help ameliorate it.
- serjester 4y ago
  I think this comes with long term, heavy use. I’ve heard similar stories.
  - rendall 4y ago
    > I think this comes with long term, heavy use. That makes sense, but GP wrote "once you've done it, everything becomes dull without it". I interpreted that to mean it happened after the first time.
    - bennysonething 4y ago
      After the first time trying it all I could think about was doing it again. I remember walking home with my friend who was doing it for first time and both of us agreed it was the best thing we'd ever done. We did it again shortly after.
      - rendall 4y ago
        I've done MDMA and other hallucinogens a lot and quite enjoyed then. I guess, for me, there is always the knowledge that it's not real. No judgment at all, though. Chemical balance is extremely personal. It's kind of like going to a movie or a concert that I enjoy, but at the end it's nice to return. If the high continued I'd feel miserably unhappy despite the artificial chemical boost.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  I haven’t used illegal drugs, but I am bipolar. Mania is a high that nothing else has ever matched. I have benzos for anxiety. And they really make an exciting social event so much brighter and clearer. I’m so comfortable in my own skin, I can just be around absolute strangers. It’s hard to compare to those highs. My daily live comparatively dull. But I’ve accepted the tradeful because the other things that come with mania are not worth it. Occasionally, I get a glimpse of what I had. I should walk away, but I don’t. And pay for it later.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
As someone who still take mdma occasionally in their thirties the few times I can actually go clubbing and have a couple of free days after when it’s not going to matter I’m somewhat tired, it’s very much a question of how much. Taking MDMA while partying is undeniably fun and does enhance the experience at least for me. It’s very much about the physical sensation, the energy and what it does to how you feel the music. Plus it doesn’t massively alter my judgement the way alcohol does and the come down is mild provided you don’t take a lot. I think I can understand both side of the fence however. Part of the issue is that most of the people who are extremely attracted to party drugs are both young and not very reasonable in how they use them.

noodleman 4y ago

Well said. These drug-positive articles never appropriately discuss the negative side effects of the lifestyle in a way that seems realistic. Several people from my youth never made it to adulthood to regret the things they did as a result of drugs. Even "harmless" drugs like MDMA have consequences.

_a_a_a_ 4y ago
Only a fool would consider any drug harmless, obviously all (including MDMA) can have consequences.
- dustymcp 4y ago
  Anything is dangerous if you are reckless, i bet druguse with proper guidance would be way better than the advice you get in the trailerpark.
- MacsHeadroom 4y ago
  Recreational horseback riding is statistically more deadly and more likely to result in serious injury than ecstasy use. [0] Of course everything has risks. But nobody demands an article about the pleasures of equestrianism to include a warning about traumatic brain injury and paralysis risks. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/11/drugs-alcohol-drugs-policy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/11/drugs-...
  - bennysonething 4y ago
    David nutt is brilliant. I loved his book drink. However I think that horse riding Vs mdma point is a bit limited. I think there are dangers worth facing as the overall experience probably helps you grow as person, so horse riding has the dangers, the skills, the discipline and the responsibilities that go with it. In my mdma taking years I don't think I met anyone who benefited from it. In fact I know of quite the opposite. Edit: btw I think all drugs should be decriminalised.
arcturus17 4y ago
There’s much more literature and comment on the negative aspects of drug use IMO. I’d agree that discussing only the upsides in a general debate would be stupid, even unethical. But on a personal account? Probably not. Believe it or not, some people can have very positive interactions from regular drug use. I’ve used E and mushrooms maybe a few dozen times each and I don’t have anything bad to say except the brutal comedowns with E the next day, and an upset tummy with shrooms. Can’t say the same with weed or alcohol - plenty of bad interactions with those. Some people are high-functioning drug users. Look at Joe Rogan, whatever you think of the guy, it’s difficult to object that he’s productive, fit and family-orientated while consuming copious amounts of weed. I would become lazy, unmotivated and depressed if I smoked 1% of what Rogan or other high-functioning stoners smoke, but I think it’s as interesting to know about their stories as it is to hear about people whose lives have been sadly ravaged by drugs.
idopmstuff 4y ago
Is it appropriate to discuss the negative side effects in this article? It's clearly a positive article about drugs - that's apparently just from the title. Must every article about a topic cover the positives and the negatives, even when it's a piece relating someone's personal experience that's clearly not intended to be unbiased news or science reporting? Also, would you hold the same standard to drug-negative articles? Must they cover the positive side of drugs in a way that's realistic?
- noodleman 4y ago
  I won't accuse you of strawmanning but this misrepresents my statement. It's would be weird to drop in figures about drug deaths in this article or something like that. I don't see why that would be relevant. But it'd be good if there was some more critical reflecting done. Perhaps your drug days would be remembered less fondly if a friend died of an OD? Or maybe you were shielded from the criminal elements of drugs. Perhaps you avoided catching any of the lifechanging STDs that run rampant amongst drug users. It's the "it can't possibly happen to me" mentality that these nostalgia-fueled articles have that rubs me the wrong way. With that said, I do think anti-drug messaging needs to confront other positive aspects of drug use, particularly in controlled clinical settings. Many staunch anti-drug people haven't even heard of it because they simply don't encounter it in their usual reading material.
  - bennysonething 4y ago
    The thing that never worked for me in school was messaging like "drugs will kill you". Well yes that's true. But drugs are way more insidious than this. In my experience they are subtle in how they mess with your mind and over all well being. They take away my drive for natural highs, and natural highs are usually good things. For example exercise, accomplishments and learning. The come downs destroy free time. But worst is they seem to reset my happiness level to lower. Small things that should bring joy no longer do. Thankfully those effects have been temporary for me. I'm glad my drug use is over. I was only ever a weekend partier. Still managed to complete a degree and hold down a job. But I'm done with drugs for good.
  - 4y ago
jmcqk6 4y ago
The problem is that the consequences are different for every person. We treat drugs as though messing with them has a guaranteed outcome, but it's not true. Drugs effect everyone differently. People use them for different reasons. People experience different outcomes from taking them. You can talk about 'appropriate' but you're assuming that they must talk about the negative aspects. Why? If some people have a positive experience with drugs why do we need to pretend they're lying?

_a_a_a_ 4y ago

Edit: I knew the silent downvotes would come from people who are anti-drug and not willing to even try understanding another's experiences. I gave an honest description, but somehow an honest data point is unacceptable as it goes against what some people want to hear. If you downvote, please explain why because the issues of drug effects, drug value and (il)legalisation need a better discussion than what I keep finding on HN from a subset of people here. Please downvote for a reason, not because you can't accept what I say. <sermon ends, normal service will now be resumed> --- Huh? Sounds like you overdid them big time. No offence but that sounds like a flaw in you, not the drugs (but yeah, that gets complex). > The come downs became horrific (once you've done a lot of them, hangovers don't come close). Double huh? I'm in a comedown from last night's E and... well, there is no comedown. As for 'hangover', I've never had one from E, ever. I seriously don't know what you've been taking. Maybe it just isn't your drug? Edit: it does sound like you seriously overdid it: "once you've done a lot of them" All I can say is your experience has zero intersection with mine. I'm sorry what is wonderful for me didn't work for you.

slfnflctd 4y ago
I think the downvotes may be coming from what looks kinda like an ad hominem attack vibe. Could've been phrased a bit less rudely. [I didn't downvote btw, I mostly agree with you.] A lot of people had bad experiences with 'E' for all kinds of reasons, from the old set & setting issue, to overdoing it, to mixing with other drugs, to dirty pills. MDMA clearly has therapeutic value. There are also many people who've had transcendent experiences with it in the wild who absolutely do not regret it. Then there are those in between (one of my best experiences was followed by a massive comedown). Humans are differently abled when it comes to exploring and/or self medicating-- many if not most are likely better off going through establishment health care channels, but those seeking their own paths shouldn't be demonized.
- _a_a_a_ 4y ago
  Ouch. A re-read and I can see what you mean about it being a bit personal. I wish I'd said it differently. But the experience was simply mine and I wasn't speaking for anyone else. I don't know of anyone who's had a bad time on them, except a couple who it just made them throw up. It was just a data point, and I was not comfortable about the talk of comedowns as if they were inevitable and awful because they aren't. I've no doubt they can be though as you and @Mezzie testify. Thanks for the feedback.

xg15 4y ago

What you said reminded me of the bird video about withdrawal and habituation: https://youtu.be/HUngLgGRJpo https://youtu.be/HUngLgGRJpo (which of course may be biased in the other direction) But that's my stance on drug use as well: It's pretty irrelevant how great your time is while you're on it if it turns your life into hell whenever you're not on it.

bennysonething 4y ago
Ha! Exactly that. Never seen that before :)

Nursie 4y ago

Is life still dull? I did ecstasy a number of times in my 20s. All sorts of other things too. In my 40s intense drug experiences no longer appeal, but I enjoy all sorts of facets of life - friends, fine food, the countryside… Maybe I’m just lucky, but this “normal life is all dull” never seems to have hit me. I do miss the odd spliff…

bastawhiz 4y ago

The only thing I have to add is that your MDMA might have been cut with something. Never take anything that you haven't tested, or where you trust the person you got it from to have tested it. Testing is cheap and easy and could save your life. Always know what you're taking.

wintermutestwin 4y ago
>Testing is cheap and easy I had a college student who came to me as a trusted adult and asked about E (because their friends were doing it while in the Netherlands). I told them what I knew about the drug and that they should always test it. When asked "how do I do that," I was at a loss and couldn't find any useful info by searching sites that I wasn't afraid to browse. How does one get a legit testing kit without exposing themselves to risk?
- skyyler 4y ago
  https://rollsafe.org/mdma-test-kits/ https://rollsafe.org/mdma-test-kits/ rollsafe is a fantastic resource for harm reduction information. They have links to test kits from various retailers and instructions on how to use them. They also have a page detailing a stack of supplements you can take to allegedly reduce the neurotoxicity of MDMA. I don’t know about the veracity of that information but the test kit info is spot-on.
  - wintermutestwin 4y ago
    But isn't buying these kits online essentially just a way to add yourself to a list of people who do illegal drugs? Maybe I am just overly paranoid, but I'd hate to see some college kid have their future ruined over something that shouldn't be, but is a crime.
    - Eisenstein 4y ago
      Some paranoia is rational but in this case I would judge the potential risks: (I) extremely low probability of 'future' problems involving ordering testing kits which are not themselves illegal (II) high probability of youths doing illegal drugs (III) extremely high probability of illegal drugs being impure (IV) moderate probability of impurities being dangerous

rendall 4y ago

> once you've done it everything becomes dull without it It sounds like you're saying that life is permanently less interesting. I'm sorry that happened to you. This is not a side effect that I am aware of. Are you sure that this came from the drug? Known side effects are temporary depression (among others). 5-HTP may help ameliorate it.

serjester 4y ago
I think this comes with long term, heavy use. I’ve heard similar stories.
- rendall 4y ago
  > I think this comes with long term, heavy use. That makes sense, but GP wrote "once you've done it, everything becomes dull without it". I interpreted that to mean it happened after the first time.
  - bennysonething 4y ago
    After the first time trying it all I could think about was doing it again. I remember walking home with my friend who was doing it for first time and both of us agreed it was the best thing we'd ever done. We did it again shortly after.
    - rendall 4y ago
      I've done MDMA and other hallucinogens a lot and quite enjoyed then. I guess, for me, there is always the knowledge that it's not real. No judgment at all, though. Chemical balance is extremely personal. It's kind of like going to a movie or a concert that I enjoy, but at the end it's nice to return. If the high continued I'd feel miserably unhappy despite the artificial chemical boost.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
I haven’t used illegal drugs, but I am bipolar. Mania is a high that nothing else has ever matched. I have benzos for anxiety. And they really make an exciting social event so much brighter and clearer. I’m so comfortable in my own skin, I can just be around absolute strangers. It’s hard to compare to those highs. My daily live comparatively dull. But I’ve accepted the tradeful because the other things that come with mania are not worth it. Occasionally, I get a glimpse of what I had. I should walk away, but I don’t. And pay for it later.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

As someone who still take mdma occasionally in their thirties the few times I can actually go clubbing and have a couple of free days after when it’s not going to matter I’m somewhat tired, it’s very much a question of how much. Taking MDMA while partying is undeniably fun and does enhance the experience at least for me. It’s very much about the physical sensation, the energy and what it does to how you feel the music. Plus it doesn’t massively alter my judgement the way alcohol does and the come down is mild provided you don’t take a lot. I think I can understand both side of the fence however. Part of the issue is that most of the people who are extremely attracted to party drugs are both young and not very reasonable in how they use them.