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Maybe this is what happens when you try to force people do something, even if for their own good? Like some sort of resistant force born in response to the for

• hestefisk 4y ago
  Parents have a responsibility of best interest for their children. Not vaccinating them so they can die from chicken pox is unforgivable, sorry.
  • ominous 4y ago
    It sounds like a good response only if you ignore the real point being raised: when coerced, a being who thinks of itself as having free will fights back at least a small amount. Do you disagree?
    • eesmith 4y ago
      That summary is so high-level and abstract as to be useless. At that level, we face coercion all the time: a traffic light is a form of coercion backed by the threat of state violence. Does fighting back against that coercion explain why people run red lights? Moreover, if it's the expected human response, what explains the 2% difference between now and the 2019-2020 school year? Do more people now think of themselves as having free will than a few years ago?
      • iinnPP 4y ago
        Your example is correct. The 2% is why you don't force vaccine mandates. There are studies showing it (pre covid) and we knew the entire time what would happen. It's so common sense I have to just fu*ing laugh about it all. Sorry.
      • ominous 4y ago
        Do you agree with every single traffic light in every single circunstance (place, and your timing)? Moreover, do you agree with every future traffic light that will ever be placed?
        • eesmith 4y ago
          My disagreements with a traffic light placement so far have not been based on a don't-tread-on-me sense of The Man treading on my free will. For example, I strongly prefer a modern roundabout for many of the places where the US uses a stop sign or traffic light. But my argument is made on increased safety and improved traffic flow. I once accidentally ran a red light because I got confused about which traffic light was for my lane. My father once deliberately ran a red light. After waiting for 5 minutes in the middle of the night. Because the detector didn't sense his motorcycle. A cop ticketed him. My father went to court and the judge ruled that what my father did was reasonable. So while I'm certain that someone, somewhere ran a red light because of moral outrage over repressive government, that's not main reason people run a red light. Just like this linked-to article seems to describe that the drop in routine vaccinations does not seem primarily due to increased vaccine hesitance due to the covid pandemic, even though certainly that is a reason for a few people.
          • ominous 4y ago
            > So while I'm certain that someone, somewhere ran a red light because of moral outrage over repressive government, that's not main reason people run a red light. So you agree coercion causes pushback. A bit tricky to get that out of you. Thank you for the exchange.
            • eesmith 4y ago
              Like I said, your point is "so high-level and abstract as to be useless." I expect far more people have run a red light because they were texting than as pushback against coercion. It appears far more kids have failed to receive their MMR shots due to pandemic-related interruptions in children’s medical visits than parental pushback against coercion.
  • mach1ne 4y ago
    It’s not about the morality of something, that’s another discussion. It’s the objective why.
  • MarcoZavala 4y ago
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  • phpisthebest 4y ago
    Government agencies have a responsibility not to lie to the public to achieve what they think is a "greater good". The have a responsibility not to just change the definition of words like vaccine to fit their political goals The failure here is not parents it is every single person in power and every single spineless person that unquestionably was regurgitating the dracionian narratives of those in power the last 2+ years
    • pavlov 4y ago
      No, the failure is still the parents. They’re the ones choosing to expose their children to deadly diseases. That was true five years ago and it’s equally true now — we’re talking about the same routine vaccines. Nothing that happened during the Covid-19 pandemic changed that.
      • phpisthebest 4y ago
        Are we... Is the COVID-19 vaccine not added to that "routine"
        • pavlov 4y ago
          It is not.
          • phpisthebest 4y ago
            You are responding based in the research paper who were looking at the non COVID vaccines however as another poster has indicated a lot of doctors are only doing vaccinations if parents "agree to all required vaccines" which in most areas of the US they have added COVID to that list So if doctors are only giving the other vaccines if parents alos.agree to the COVID one then naturally parents that are refusing just COVID one will also have to refuse the others Seems like a bad idea to hold the other vaccines hostage unless people agree to take the COVID treatment
    • hestefisk 4y ago
      What lies, specifically?
  • lolinder 4y ago
    I'm pro vaccines, but chicken pox isn't a great choice for making a rhetorical point. It's the least dangerous illness of the standard childhood vaccines, and was added recently enough that even millennials just lived with it (the vaccine became available in the US in 1995). Measles and polio are the ones I'd emphasize, not chicken pox.
    • iinnPP 4y ago
      Super weird given the link between covid vaccines and Shingles.
    • hestefisk 4y ago
      Fair enough. Polio is a better example. Either way, you get the gist.
  • thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > Not vaccinating [children] so they can die from chicken pox is unforgivable, sorry. Children don't die from chicken pox. It's only dangerous to adults.
• smcameron 4y ago
  [flagged]
  • MarcoZavala 4y ago
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• eesmith 4y ago
  1) We know it isn't because the same routine vaccination requirements have been around for decades. 2) They aren't forced. They are required to go to public school (with limited exemptions) but parents have other options, albeit more time-consuming and/or costly. The primary reason given is "pandemic-related interruptions in children’s medical visits as well as in-person schooling", and catching up with documentation. While it's "also possible that anti-vaccine sentiment, inflamed during the Covid-19 pandemic, is widening", "Health officials said they haven’t seen an increase in vaccine exemptions nationally".
  • phpisthebest 4y ago
    Not all of the required "vaccines" have been around for decades. One of them is very new and that one seems to have a lot of controversy when it comes to kids and mounting questions on if it is safe or effective for said age group. Even mainstream news networks like the BBC are starting to air concerns from their own medical experts
    • eesmith 4y ago
      See the "routine" in the title? The linked-to page says those are: "measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) shot; the diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis (DTaP) shot; and the shots against poliovirus and varicella (chickenpox)." Not COVID vaccination.
      • phpisthebest 4y ago
        I understand that is what the story has said but as another poster has indicated a lot of doctors are only doing vaccinations if parents "agree to all required vaccines" which in most areas of the US they have added COVID to that list So if they make it "take them all including COVID or none" Then naturally parents that refuse to give their children the new COVID treatment will also have to choose refuse the "routine" ones as they are not being given the opportunity to only receive the routine vaccines with out COVID
        • 4y ago
• idontwantthis 4y ago
  You’re implying this natural property of humans has appeared suddenly and gradually in the 21st century.
• bamboozled 4y ago
  It's this combined with the horror of not having vaccines, people have forgotten or don't know what that looks like, so we probably have to see children destroyed from diseases (we already have vaccines for) before people will understand why things like vaccine mandates exist. I do agree with others though, I don't feel the same way about Covid19 vaccines, even though I took them, it really does, in retrospect, look like a lot of it was trying to get people onto a yearly vaccine plan, "get your yearly covid19 booster", I don't like that personally.
  • MrVandemar 4y ago
    > it really does, in retrospect, look like a lot of it was trying to get people onto a yearly vaccine plan I think, yes, the companies are for sure rubbing their hands and thinking about the extra money from another mandated yearly vaccine. But the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, though they have a short window of effectiveness (as do flu vaccines) have protected some people from severity of the symptoms and death, which is not a bad thing. There may be some value in a yearly vaccine for at least susceptible people that covers a window of time where infection rates are typically highest.
  • busymom0 4y ago
    Yearly? More like every 2-3 months. The shots are waning so fast plus new variants. It is entirely unsustainable.
• hotpotamus 4y ago
  I wonder what my life would be like if no one had ever tried to force me to do anything. I'd probably describe myself as deeply unambitious and as such I probably wouldn't have accomplished much without some prods, and I think I agree with you that I resent all of it. All the expectations about wearing the socially acceptable clothing, all the weirdness about expectations from your neighbors about proper behavior and lawn/house upkeep, and all the societal expectations and laws are incredibly stifling and seem like a waste of time and effort. But you probably wouldn't like what people would get up to without them.