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I’m sorry, but the article you linked is just sensational - its header claims alcohol is more harmful than heroin. Alcohol usage is extremely widespread, so of

I’m sorry, but the article you linked is just sensational - its header claims alcohol is more harmful than heroin. Alcohol usage is extremely widespread, so of course its negative effects are more obvious in the population than other drugs. Personally, I’d rather be surrounded by a group of alcohol abusers than a group of psychedelics abusers.

andy_ppp 4y ago
If you give addicts pure heroin a lot of them can function just fine. We should consider the negative consequences of prohibition rather than just the drugs themselves.
- slfnflctd 4y ago
  Opiates are generally easier on the body than people realize when distributed in a controlled setting. Alcohol does much more damage directly to the body. That's part of why opiates or opioids are still widely prescribed for pain in hospitals, and vodka shots aren't. It's the addiction that's a bitch. Of course heroin street addicts end up in bad shape-- but a lot of that is from tangential effects, not directly from the drug itself.
frereubu 4y ago
"...when the overall dangers to the individual and society are considered" is the context for that, which you've removed. The article goes on to talk about why David Nutt thinks that, and given that he's spent his life researching various drugs in society I think his opinion is worth more than a cursory glance at the headline. I'm not sure whether I'd rather be around heroin addicts or alcholics (both of which I've known in the past) because they both have significant downsides, but it's worth noting that heroin isn't a psychedelic. I'd much rather be around people on psychedelics rather than the other two.
- mach1ne 4y ago
  That context is irrelevant given the fact that alcohol usage is so widespread compared to heroin. Do you seriously claim that society would function better if every normal alcohol user converted to use heroin? Furthermore, my point on psychedelics was about psychedelics, which was the context of the comment it answered, not heroin.
Nursie 4y ago
Alcohol kills, both with acute and chronic health problems. It also has long term cognitive and physical costs. For a significant proportion of its users it becomes habitual and for some, full-on addictive. Alcohol is also associated with violence, both public and domestic. Psychedelic use is none of those things. Psychedelics in general are far less likely to be addictive, use is not associated with violence. There are some health effects, LSD for example is a stimulant and vasoconstrictor, but in general they are not taken in large enough doses or often enough to cause harm. I think your hunch as to who you would rather be around is a bit weird, frankly.
10x_contrarian 4y ago
> Personally, I’d rather be surrounded by a group of alcohol abusers than a group of psychedelics abusers. Can you elaborate a bit on this take? We've all seen how far people abusing alcohol can go. Where as the worst I see from psychedelics users is that they can struggle to talk about anything other than how've they've somehow figured out the universe and that everyone should take psychedelics.
- mach1ne 4y ago
  Psychedelics, namely ones like LSD and magic mushrooms, are known to cause psychotic episodes which turn violent. Their prevalence despite the rarity of the drug strongly suggest a high risk of unpredictable violent action.
  - 10x_contrarian 4y ago
    Anecdotally, people are much more likely to have violent episodes when using alcohol than psychedelics. I'd be surprised if relevant scientific studies didn't support these observations.
deleted 4y ago
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andy_ppp 4y ago

If you give addicts pure heroin a lot of them can function just fine. We should consider the negative consequences of prohibition rather than just the drugs themselves.

slfnflctd 4y ago
Opiates are generally easier on the body than people realize when distributed in a controlled setting. Alcohol does much more damage directly to the body. That's part of why opiates or opioids are still widely prescribed for pain in hospitals, and vodka shots aren't. It's the addiction that's a bitch. Of course heroin street addicts end up in bad shape-- but a lot of that is from tangential effects, not directly from the drug itself.

frereubu 4y ago

"...when the overall dangers to the individual and society are considered" is the context for that, which you've removed. The article goes on to talk about why David Nutt thinks that, and given that he's spent his life researching various drugs in society I think his opinion is worth more than a cursory glance at the headline. I'm not sure whether I'd rather be around heroin addicts or alcholics (both of which I've known in the past) because they both have significant downsides, but it's worth noting that heroin isn't a psychedelic. I'd much rather be around people on psychedelics rather than the other two.

mach1ne 4y ago
That context is irrelevant given the fact that alcohol usage is so widespread compared to heroin. Do you seriously claim that society would function better if every normal alcohol user converted to use heroin? Furthermore, my point on psychedelics was about psychedelics, which was the context of the comment it answered, not heroin.

Nursie 4y ago

Alcohol kills, both with acute and chronic health problems. It also has long term cognitive and physical costs. For a significant proportion of its users it becomes habitual and for some, full-on addictive. Alcohol is also associated with violence, both public and domestic. Psychedelic use is none of those things. Psychedelics in general are far less likely to be addictive, use is not associated with violence. There are some health effects, LSD for example is a stimulant and vasoconstrictor, but in general they are not taken in large enough doses or often enough to cause harm. I think your hunch as to who you would rather be around is a bit weird, frankly.

10x_contrarian 4y ago

> Personally, I’d rather be surrounded by a group of alcohol abusers than a group of psychedelics abusers. Can you elaborate a bit on this take? We've all seen how far people abusing alcohol can go. Where as the worst I see from psychedelics users is that they can struggle to talk about anything other than how've they've somehow figured out the universe and that everyone should take psychedelics.

mach1ne 4y ago
Psychedelics, namely ones like LSD and magic mushrooms, are known to cause psychotic episodes which turn violent. Their prevalence despite the rarity of the drug strongly suggest a high risk of unpredictable violent action.
- 10x_contrarian 4y ago
  Anecdotally, people are much more likely to have violent episodes when using alcohol than psychedelics. I'd be surprised if relevant scientific studies didn't support these observations.

deleted 4y ago

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