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MDMA is one of the most wonderful chemicals I've tried. I've had experiences of bonding and closeness with people that words can not express. While it may be a

MDMA is one of the most wonderful chemicals I've tried. I've had experiences of bonding and closeness with people that words can not express. While it may be artificial to a degree, the experience is no less profound. The problem with these kinds of experiences is that it is fantasy made real to a degree and life without those experiences can seem dull. That can be tricky to reconcile and isn't really spoken about enough. That box can't be closed once open.

NovaVeles 4y ago
Alan Watts said it about LSD - but equally applies to MDMA. Use it like a scientist uses a microscope. Use it to observe but then you go away and work on what you have experienced. Don't get fixated on the observation stage.
- joshxyz 4y ago
  Another similar phrase: "Once you got the message, hang up the phone."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - elevaet 4y ago
    Unfortunately he didn't apply that philosophy to the bottle, which killed him in the end.
- petre 4y ago
  I saw a documentary about LSD with Watts and a bunch if otger people, including A. Hoffman interviewed. What I wonder about is why do people who have consumed LSD or are into psychedelics exhibit all sorts of new age artefacts around their homes?
  - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
    If you're open to trying one thing that you're not "supposed to" then I think it's pretty unlikely that that's the only alt-thing you're into.
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    Do you remember what it was? Wormwood?
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    What qualifies as a new age artifact?
    - petre 4y ago
      Pyramids, Budhha, crystals, dreamcatchers etc. The firtst thing you notice is the colorful shirt.
      - ethanbond 4y ago
        Some of these are due to philosophical insights that IMO (and many others’) psychedelics can confer. In particular they’re known for generating a sense of oneness and for revealing the deeply subjective nature of reality[0]. Buddhism has been exploring these ideas in depth for millennia, so I think psychedelic usage can push people in that direction pretty easily. Dreamcatchers — rather indigenous culture broadly, at least in the US — also has a developed philosophy of oneness with nature. Again, when you see the insights psychedelics have to confer, it makes sense to go find the people who’ve been talking about those insights for millennia. Western thought is just an entirely different train. It’s all extremely valuable IMO but we have artifacts of western philosophies all around us every day. None of these are intended to remind us of The Big Ideas that one is likely to come across via psychedelics. Colorful shirts: This is because you just appreciate certain patterns/colors more after seeing them on psychedelics. No clue how to describe this lasting impression but it is VERY real. Pyramids/crystals: no clue but entirely possible they just fall into the same category as shirts for that individual (alongside things like kaleidoscopes). [0] Note this is NOT some new age woo woo about quantum whatever. It’s the factual observation (made more obvious via meditation or psychedelics) that 100% of our experience of the world occurs via the “interpretation machine” that lives mostly inside our skull. Not one of us is making direct contact with “reality” as it exists beneath human interpretation.
crapaud23 4y ago
Yeah sure. Once I partied with people who were taking ecstasy so I took 1/5th to 1/10th of what they swallowed (powder). As a result I had a very light trip. Nonetheless I ended up grinding my teeth in my sleep for 1 year afterwards. People who study drugs say you shouldn't take mdma. Or at least "less than once a year" (because these scientists really enjoy drugs).
- capn_duck 4y ago
  Okay dude!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mdhen 4y ago
  That makes no sense.
  - crapaud23 4y ago
    Nope. One of the girl even confessed she wasn't doing mdma because 1°) it induced a depressive episode that lasted for a year. 2°) Had to wear a dental tray at night because of bruxism (=teeth grinding). I have a friend who does mdma regularly (like once every 3 months). Suffers from bruxism too. When he goes to the dentist, he can tell he's a mdma user. You're free to waste your health as you wish (also mdma lowers t-cell rate in the blood, they never get back to normal afterwards, a japanese man taking multiple Es a day even died of immunodeficiency). Personally I prefer a good brewage of ipomea heavenly blue or some hawaian baby woodrose. Edit: Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnptUdyDUKI&t=30m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnptUdyDUKI&t=30m (timelink @ 30mins). It is said mdma is neurotoxic can induce permanent damages and trigger chronic depression. Scientist: "I think mdma like no other drug has a much higher neurotoxic potential". Then the dubbing voice takes over. Activates subtitles. "MDMA is a special case [among other ego distorting drugs]. It is delicate to give recommendation of use for this drug and if somebody asked me my opinion I would say it's best to stay away from it".
    - 4y ago
deafpolygon 4y ago
> life without those experiences can seem dull Maybe after usage, life may seem dull in comparison.
- junon 4y ago
  I believe that is their exact point.
fckgnad 4y ago
Another perspective: The box was never meant to be open. We are not meant to understand the full truth of the universe. There are other boxes too, each box with a slightly different experience and each with a different price to pay. The price is irrelevant to the discussion though. My question for you is, why is MDMA profound? Why the focus on this particular box. Why aren't you talking about the profound experiences generated by meth or heroin?
- jojobas 4y ago
  There is no truth in tricking your brain to feel what's not there.
  - fckgnad 4y ago
    All feelings, drug induced, or not aren't really there. None of it is real. Truth is just an expression. I use it in the same light as "profoundness". I understand the stigma associated with the drug. But the emotions generated by the drugs themselves are in reality actualized by the brain and that actualization cannot be invalidated. It is worth it to ask, think and wonder about this actualization even when you have no plans around taking the drugs yourself.
    - 400thecat 4y ago
      heroine and Meth are not hallucinogenic drugs. I have never taken MDMA, but I did try DMT and psiloscybin. These experiences were profound. Further, the risk is almost zero. DMT is anti-addictive. I took it few times, and I don't ever want to repeat it
      - fckgnad 4y ago
        The topic at hand here is not hallucinogenic drugs. MDMA is not hallucinogenic. The topic at hand is centered around drugs that generate pleasure. You're a little left field with hallucinogenic drugs. I'm sure there's some sort of "profoundness" there as well but it's a different topic.
kristiandupont 4y ago
The Amy Winehouse documentary really made this clear to me. She wins a Grammy which should be a peak of ones career as a musician and she tells her friend that "this is so boring without the drugs".
- Nursie 4y ago
  Amy Winehouse was a habitual user of heroin and crack, and a heavy drinker. This seems to me somewhat different.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    It's different in degree, but not in kind.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      It kinda is, because those are substances people fall into using habitually and constantly. (ex) Heroin users frequently talk about PAWS, which describes this, prolonged anhedonic dissatisfaction with life that can last months or years. I don’t believe it applies in the same way to substances people use infrequently. I reached heights of experience untold with MDMA on dance floors when I was younger. In my 40s I still get a kick out going to the zoo though, a walk in the countryside, solving a puzzle, or a visit to the pub with my mates.
      - jvanderbot 4y ago
        Then you probably aren't experiencing nearly the degree of hedonic exhaustion that is being talked about. You might be near zero. I don't think it's about drugs, it could be video games, but when you overload your brain enough, you may experience a kind of color washout of the experiences that don't overload your brain.
        Nursie 4y ago
        If it’s basically zero then that’s a difference in kind, not degree. The point I’m making is you can’t take a quote from Amy Winehouse about how boring life is without drugs and apply it to people who have just experienced anything intense. Amy Winehouse was likely in PAWS with severely altered brain chemistry. It’s not just that other experiences were pale in comparison to what she’d been doing, it’s likely she was chemically incapable of feeling very much positive and responding normally.

NovaVeles 4y ago

Alan Watts said it about LSD - but equally applies to MDMA. Use it like a scientist uses a microscope. Use it to observe but then you go away and work on what you have experienced. Don't get fixated on the observation stage.

joshxyz 4y ago
Another similar phrase: "Once you got the message, hang up the phone."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- elevaet 4y ago
  Unfortunately he didn't apply that philosophy to the bottle, which killed him in the end.
petre 4y ago
I saw a documentary about LSD with Watts and a bunch if otger people, including A. Hoffman interviewed. What I wonder about is why do people who have consumed LSD or are into psychedelics exhibit all sorts of new age artefacts around their homes?
- __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
  If you're open to trying one thing that you're not "supposed to" then I think it's pretty unlikely that that's the only alt-thing you're into.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  Do you remember what it was? Wormwood?
- ethanbond 4y ago
  What qualifies as a new age artifact?
  - petre 4y ago
    Pyramids, Budhha, crystals, dreamcatchers etc. The firtst thing you notice is the colorful shirt.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      Some of these are due to philosophical insights that IMO (and many others’) psychedelics can confer. In particular they’re known for generating a sense of oneness and for revealing the deeply subjective nature of reality[0]. Buddhism has been exploring these ideas in depth for millennia, so I think psychedelic usage can push people in that direction pretty easily. Dreamcatchers — rather indigenous culture broadly, at least in the US — also has a developed philosophy of oneness with nature. Again, when you see the insights psychedelics have to confer, it makes sense to go find the people who’ve been talking about those insights for millennia. Western thought is just an entirely different train. It’s all extremely valuable IMO but we have artifacts of western philosophies all around us every day. None of these are intended to remind us of The Big Ideas that one is likely to come across via psychedelics. Colorful shirts: This is because you just appreciate certain patterns/colors more after seeing them on psychedelics. No clue how to describe this lasting impression but it is VERY real. Pyramids/crystals: no clue but entirely possible they just fall into the same category as shirts for that individual (alongside things like kaleidoscopes). [0] Note this is NOT some new age woo woo about quantum whatever. It’s the factual observation (made more obvious via meditation or psychedelics) that 100% of our experience of the world occurs via the “interpretation machine” that lives mostly inside our skull. Not one of us is making direct contact with “reality” as it exists beneath human interpretation.

crapaud23 4y ago

Yeah sure. Once I partied with people who were taking ecstasy so I took 1/5th to 1/10th of what they swallowed (powder). As a result I had a very light trip. Nonetheless I ended up grinding my teeth in my sleep for 1 year afterwards. People who study drugs say you shouldn't take mdma. Or at least "less than once a year" (because these scientists really enjoy drugs).

capn_duck 4y ago
Okay dude!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mdhen 4y ago
That makes no sense.
- crapaud23 4y ago
  Nope. One of the girl even confessed she wasn't doing mdma because 1°) it induced a depressive episode that lasted for a year. 2°) Had to wear a dental tray at night because of bruxism (=teeth grinding). I have a friend who does mdma regularly (like once every 3 months). Suffers from bruxism too. When he goes to the dentist, he can tell he's a mdma user. You're free to waste your health as you wish (also mdma lowers t-cell rate in the blood, they never get back to normal afterwards, a japanese man taking multiple Es a day even died of immunodeficiency). Personally I prefer a good brewage of ipomea heavenly blue or some hawaian baby woodrose. Edit: Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnptUdyDUKI&t=30m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnptUdyDUKI&t=30m (timelink @ 30mins). It is said mdma is neurotoxic can induce permanent damages and trigger chronic depression. Scientist: "I think mdma like no other drug has a much higher neurotoxic potential". Then the dubbing voice takes over. Activates subtitles. "MDMA is a special case [among other ego distorting drugs]. It is delicate to give recommendation of use for this drug and if somebody asked me my opinion I would say it's best to stay away from it".
  - 4y ago

deafpolygon 4y ago

> life without those experiences can seem dull Maybe after usage, life may seem dull in comparison.

junon 4y ago
I believe that is their exact point.

fckgnad 4y ago

Another perspective: The box was never meant to be open. We are not meant to understand the full truth of the universe. There are other boxes too, each box with a slightly different experience and each with a different price to pay. The price is irrelevant to the discussion though. My question for you is, why is MDMA profound? Why the focus on this particular box. Why aren't you talking about the profound experiences generated by meth or heroin?

jojobas 4y ago
There is no truth in tricking your brain to feel what's not there.
- fckgnad 4y ago
  All feelings, drug induced, or not aren't really there. None of it is real. Truth is just an expression. I use it in the same light as "profoundness". I understand the stigma associated with the drug. But the emotions generated by the drugs themselves are in reality actualized by the brain and that actualization cannot be invalidated. It is worth it to ask, think and wonder about this actualization even when you have no plans around taking the drugs yourself.
  - 400thecat 4y ago
    heroine and Meth are not hallucinogenic drugs. I have never taken MDMA, but I did try DMT and psiloscybin. These experiences were profound. Further, the risk is almost zero. DMT is anti-addictive. I took it few times, and I don't ever want to repeat it
    - fckgnad 4y ago
      The topic at hand here is not hallucinogenic drugs. MDMA is not hallucinogenic. The topic at hand is centered around drugs that generate pleasure. You're a little left field with hallucinogenic drugs. I'm sure there's some sort of "profoundness" there as well but it's a different topic.

kristiandupont 4y ago

The Amy Winehouse documentary really made this clear to me. She wins a Grammy which should be a peak of ones career as a musician and she tells her friend that "this is so boring without the drugs".

Nursie 4y ago
Amy Winehouse was a habitual user of heroin and crack, and a heavy drinker. This seems to me somewhat different.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  It's different in degree, but not in kind.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    It kinda is, because those are substances people fall into using habitually and constantly. (ex) Heroin users frequently talk about PAWS, which describes this, prolonged anhedonic dissatisfaction with life that can last months or years. I don’t believe it applies in the same way to substances people use infrequently. I reached heights of experience untold with MDMA on dance floors when I was younger. In my 40s I still get a kick out going to the zoo though, a walk in the countryside, solving a puzzle, or a visit to the pub with my mates.
    - jvanderbot 4y ago
      Then you probably aren't experiencing nearly the degree of hedonic exhaustion that is being talked about. You might be near zero. I don't think it's about drugs, it could be video games, but when you overload your brain enough, you may experience a kind of color washout of the experiences that don't overload your brain.
      - Nursie 4y ago
        If it’s basically zero then that’s a difference in kind, not degree. The point I’m making is you can’t take a quote from Amy Winehouse about how boring life is without drugs and apply it to people who have just experienced anything intense. Amy Winehouse was likely in PAWS with severely altered brain chemistry. It’s not just that other experiences were pale in comparison to what she’d been doing, it’s likely she was chemically incapable of feeling very much positive and responding normally.