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I need mind altering substances to avoid anxiety and depression; I wholly reject the idea that without these substances, I am my "true self." My intrusive thoug

I need mind altering substances to avoid anxiety and depression; I wholly reject the idea that without these substances, I am my "true self." My intrusive thoughts and self doubts aren't mystically good just because my mind produces them in the absence of substances; the feeling of self actualization I have if I use substances and am able to move past that headspace and reclaim my creativity (what I personally call "feeling like myself again") is no less real for having involved substances.

stormdennis 4y ago
Good post. Are there any downsides? I use alcohol to excess, a habit I developed in the days when socialising was something I wanted/needed to do but needed help with it.
- maxbond 4y ago
  Let me be clear that I don't use ecstasy to regulate my mood (or, personally, at all) and that I'm not a doctor. I use marijuana to break out of loops of anxiety and repetitive, intrusive thoughts (blessedly legal where I live), and there are some modest downsides, mostly that it's expensive and only works if used in moderation. It helps snap me out of anxiety attacks and shorten the duration of depressive episodes but it isn't magic, I still have to confront my issues and work towards making my life better. Virtually everyone I know has struggled with anxiety and/or depression and has had success going to therapy and taking some sort of antidepressant. Many of them had to go through several therapists & medications until they found a therapist they meshed with and a prescription/dosage that worked for them; it's a difficult and frustrating process, but I've seen it really work for people in my life. Like I said, I'm not a doctor, I can only give the most general advice, but it is my belief that if you want your life to be different, it's a real possibility, it's something worth working towards, and if you feel that you use alcohol in excess, it's worth considering whether a professional can help you to identify a different strategy/medication.
- colordrops 4y ago
  The hangover can be brutal. Especially if you do more than one dose in a night. Don't do that.
marginalia_nu 4y ago
Aren't these selves both just... you though? I get that one state of mind is more desirable than the other, but denying that anxiety is part of your psychology makes it more seem like your "true self" is who you want to be than who you are. To be clear I'm not saying anxiety meds are bad or you're wrong for medicating or for wanting to not be racked by anxiety. There are many states of mind that are unpleasant. Anxiety, grief, doubt, jealousy, anger, and so on; and many behaviors that we may engage in that we rationally realize we should not, various forms of self-sabotage, unhealthy habits, and so on. I don't think saying because we don't like these things, these things aren't really your true self is helpful. They don't need to be part of us, but if we can't face the fact that they are, they will remain.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  I don't think that (strong) anxiety is part of ones "true nature", but rather something you get from childhood traumas etc. And mind altering drugs can help overcome those - or they can push you deeper into them.
  - v-erne 4y ago
    Its only true if we are not only sum of our experiences with bit of genetic modifiers sprinkled on. Otherwise how the feeling of content on christmas eve with family is more true self than suicidal anxiety of existantial dredd You feel day after when everbody has gone to do their mostly pointless things. I personalny am not sure which is more true - selecting any of those as nature seems like some some sort of rationalization to fit reality into ideollogy we just want, more or less subconsciously, to be true.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      "content on christmas eve with family is more true self than suicidal anxiety of existantial dredd" Both are true feelings, but my point was, that I don't think a general baseline anxiety is something that is part of ones personality. I feel limited in myself, when fear is dominating and free, if the fear is gone and I am no longer blocked to do the things I want.
ed_elliott_asc 4y ago
I also used ecstasy to avoid my anxiety (in the early 2000’s mainly) - I’ve found more recently that therapy from a good professional is better for me.
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
> I wholly reject the idea that without these substances, I am my "true self." Yes, scare quotes intentional. It seems to me more like the phrasing of "be yourself" and be your "true self" in this comment and parent is the issue. What if that "true vs false self" is an illusion anyway? You can still "be better", be what you want to be, be happier and more capable, be a better self, that you like more. It doesn't require any claims that "this point on the graph is truly me, and that point is not". That statement might not just be false, but be actually meaningless. Drugs are mind-altering for sure, that's the point of them, but so is learning a new skill or reading a good book.
hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
Counterexample: I have a friend who was a very happy person and started taking ecstasy in early 2000s. At one of the parties he saw a young colleague die just next to him. Of course everybody interpreted it as an unfortunate coincidence ("if you're unlucky, you can die of aspirin, too"). Then, one day, he went to see his dentist who asked him if he wants to take nitrous oxide. My friend agreed but that day something strange started happening to him. When he was telling me it seemed like serious paranoia. He lost his job, he was seeing things that weren't there, day and night. It lasted more than two years and doctors weren't able to help him. He is more or less normal now but won't even touch anything intoxicating, not even alcohol. Later I saw some articles about that and it doesn't seem so uncommon: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1684523/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1684523/ https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/abs/ecstasy-psychosis-and-flashbacks/8F8C0DEDD6BC1739D79A166B81E7E1A3 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...
- maxbond 4y ago
  You'll get no argument from me that both ecstacy and nitrous oxide are incredibly dangerous. I don't do ecstacy and I'm not keen on being sedated with nitrous oxide. I wish things had been different for your friend. I think a recreational drug culture isn't well equipped to understand and respond to hazards like this; I wish we had something different, where use was more mindful and it wasn't driven underground, making it inaccessible to doctors and researchers.
deesep 4y ago
I didn't realize I had anxiety and Fibromyalgia until I took a little too much of cannabis bread. My thoughts weren't all over the place, I had better control of my coordination and oh how clear my thoughts were. Math concepts I had struggled with in school suddenly made sense. As the effects of the THC wore off, I noticed a familiar feeling of pain come over me body. Only this time, It came slowly, and its intensity increased as the effects of the THC wore off. Is this pain in my nerves? I was used to experiencing it as irritations, stress, and fatigue. I could make sense of it because I had time to think about it before getting overwhelmed by it. I was fascinated! I discovered the word Fibromyalgia after this. The second time I ate the bread, I made sure I had no activities for the day, was alone at home, and observed my behavior prior to taking the cannabis. When it was time to eat, I got a timer and took note of when the effects kicked in, which parts of my body became relaxed first and how the general transition from stress, /micro pain/anxiety to peace, and clear thoughts happened. I loved the discovery I was making. After a couple of months I quit the cannabis and switched to meditation, yoga, ice baths, and CBT to deal with the anxiety. It has worked. These days I don't meditate or do yoga daily, but I have better control of my life, and very grateful for the experience that led me here.

stormdennis 4y ago

Good post. Are there any downsides? I use alcohol to excess, a habit I developed in the days when socialising was something I wanted/needed to do but needed help with it.

maxbond 4y ago
Let me be clear that I don't use ecstasy to regulate my mood (or, personally, at all) and that I'm not a doctor. I use marijuana to break out of loops of anxiety and repetitive, intrusive thoughts (blessedly legal where I live), and there are some modest downsides, mostly that it's expensive and only works if used in moderation. It helps snap me out of anxiety attacks and shorten the duration of depressive episodes but it isn't magic, I still have to confront my issues and work towards making my life better. Virtually everyone I know has struggled with anxiety and/or depression and has had success going to therapy and taking some sort of antidepressant. Many of them had to go through several therapists & medications until they found a therapist they meshed with and a prescription/dosage that worked for them; it's a difficult and frustrating process, but I've seen it really work for people in my life. Like I said, I'm not a doctor, I can only give the most general advice, but it is my belief that if you want your life to be different, it's a real possibility, it's something worth working towards, and if you feel that you use alcohol in excess, it's worth considering whether a professional can help you to identify a different strategy/medication.
colordrops 4y ago
The hangover can be brutal. Especially if you do more than one dose in a night. Don't do that.

marginalia_nu 4y ago

Aren't these selves both just... you though? I get that one state of mind is more desirable than the other, but denying that anxiety is part of your psychology makes it more seem like your "true self" is who you want to be than who you are. To be clear I'm not saying anxiety meds are bad or you're wrong for medicating or for wanting to not be racked by anxiety. There are many states of mind that are unpleasant. Anxiety, grief, doubt, jealousy, anger, and so on; and many behaviors that we may engage in that we rationally realize we should not, various forms of self-sabotage, unhealthy habits, and so on. I don't think saying because we don't like these things, these things aren't really your true self is helpful. They don't need to be part of us, but if we can't face the fact that they are, they will remain.

hutzlibu 4y ago
I don't think that (strong) anxiety is part of ones "true nature", but rather something you get from childhood traumas etc. And mind altering drugs can help overcome those - or they can push you deeper into them.
- v-erne 4y ago
  Its only true if we are not only sum of our experiences with bit of genetic modifiers sprinkled on. Otherwise how the feeling of content on christmas eve with family is more true self than suicidal anxiety of existantial dredd You feel day after when everbody has gone to do their mostly pointless things. I personalny am not sure which is more true - selecting any of those as nature seems like some some sort of rationalization to fit reality into ideollogy we just want, more or less subconsciously, to be true.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    "content on christmas eve with family is more true self than suicidal anxiety of existantial dredd" Both are true feelings, but my point was, that I don't think a general baseline anxiety is something that is part of ones personality. I feel limited in myself, when fear is dominating and free, if the fear is gone and I am no longer blocked to do the things I want.

ed_elliott_asc 4y ago

I also used ecstasy to avoid my anxiety (in the early 2000’s mainly) - I’ve found more recently that therapy from a good professional is better for me.

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago

> I wholly reject the idea that without these substances, I am my "true self." Yes, scare quotes intentional. It seems to me more like the phrasing of "be yourself" and be your "true self" in this comment and parent is the issue. What if that "true vs false self" is an illusion anyway? You can still "be better", be what you want to be, be happier and more capable, be a better self, that you like more. It doesn't require any claims that "this point on the graph is truly me, and that point is not". That statement might not just be false, but be actually meaningless. Drugs are mind-altering for sure, that's the point of them, but so is learning a new skill or reading a good book.

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago

Counterexample: I have a friend who was a very happy person and started taking ecstasy in early 2000s. At one of the parties he saw a young colleague die just next to him. Of course everybody interpreted it as an unfortunate coincidence ("if you're unlucky, you can die of aspirin, too"). Then, one day, he went to see his dentist who asked him if he wants to take nitrous oxide. My friend agreed but that day something strange started happening to him. When he was telling me it seemed like serious paranoia. He lost his job, he was seeing things that weren't there, day and night. It lasted more than two years and doctors weren't able to help him. He is more or less normal now but won't even touch anything intoxicating, not even alcohol. Later I saw some articles about that and it doesn't seem so uncommon: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1684523/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1684523/ https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/abs/ecstasy-psychosis-and-flashbacks/8F8C0DEDD6BC1739D79A166B81E7E1A3 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...

maxbond 4y ago
You'll get no argument from me that both ecstacy and nitrous oxide are incredibly dangerous. I don't do ecstacy and I'm not keen on being sedated with nitrous oxide. I wish things had been different for your friend. I think a recreational drug culture isn't well equipped to understand and respond to hazards like this; I wish we had something different, where use was more mindful and it wasn't driven underground, making it inaccessible to doctors and researchers.

deesep 4y ago

I didn't realize I had anxiety and Fibromyalgia until I took a little too much of cannabis bread. My thoughts weren't all over the place, I had better control of my coordination and oh how clear my thoughts were. Math concepts I had struggled with in school suddenly made sense. As the effects of the THC wore off, I noticed a familiar feeling of pain come over me body. Only this time, It came slowly, and its intensity increased as the effects of the THC wore off. Is this pain in my nerves? I was used to experiencing it as irritations, stress, and fatigue. I could make sense of it because I had time to think about it before getting overwhelmed by it. I was fascinated! I discovered the word Fibromyalgia after this. The second time I ate the bread, I made sure I had no activities for the day, was alone at home, and observed my behavior prior to taking the cannabis. When it was time to eat, I got a timer and took note of when the effects kicked in, which parts of my body became relaxed first and how the general transition from stress, /micro pain/anxiety to peace, and clear thoughts happened. I loved the discovery I was making. After a couple of months I quit the cannabis and switched to meditation, yoga, ice baths, and CBT to deal with the anxiety. It has worked. These days I don't meditate or do yoga daily, but I have better control of my life, and very grateful for the experience that led me here.