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I find it hilarious when people state their partisan opinions as fact, and then sound surprised that some people believe otherwise. This is why every policy ar

I find it hilarious when people state their partisan opinions as fact, and then sound surprised that some people believe otherwise. This is why every policy article turns into a flame-war. Pro-government interventionist? You really mean the liberal democrat view. You shift closer on the pole to the conservative republican viewpoint. Simple as that. Lets not act as if either viewpoint is math here, and not just a set of ideas.

jbooth 15y ago
Yeah, pro-government interventionist is a pretty hilarious phrasing. Let's talk in comical absolutes, that's guaranteed to generate insightful discussion. What's anti-government interventionist? You don't believe in having police to intervene if you're getting your ass beat? Don't believe in courts to intervene in contract disputes? Man, I am so right I can barely stand it.
- 3pt14159 15y ago
  How would you phrase it? Call them liberal? Socialist? Conservative? Populist? Corporatist? It is phrased that way on purpose because most political leanings favor government intervention between individuals where neither party is committing force or fraud.
  - jbooth 15y ago
    I'd talk in specifics instead of loaded terms and comical straw-men. In the linked article, I'd have a problem with the length of that maternity leave, 3 years seems excessive. I generally think the US system of "you can be fired for anything besides discrimination" is the right system for knowledge-worker jobs. I've got a lot less of a problem with the idea of taxes in general, since stuff costs money, and am unabashedly in favor of government-provided healthcare on a dollars and cents basis: Every other developed nation delivers healthcare more cheaply than the US's system, no matter how messed up their national healthcare system is. I'd much prefer paying X additional dollars in taxes if the alternative is 2X additional dollars in healthcare premiums. EDIT: Sigh, apparently my support for a shorter maternity leave term than 3 years angered an anti-government-interventionist.
    - jbooth 15y ago
      I'm going to actually add on to this and zoom out a bit and explain why "pro/anti government intervention" is a silly distinction. You already conceded that government intervention is necessary in the form of a police force and a tort system. Let me throw a few more at you: * Roads? * Should it be legal to build a giant transmitter to jam my competitor radio station's signal? No? Ok, you're in favor of the FCC in some form). * National defense? * Regulations prohibiting me from selling a bunch of rat poison labelled as "Tylenol"? If you're in favor of that regulation, then welcome to the FDA in some form. * Public schools and/or a voucher system to pay for private schooling? It turns out that if we look at preceding items in terms of a sheer "NO GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION" dividing line, you're probably in favor of government intervention in all of them. It's just a question of quibbling over the details. That's why I think "pro government intervention" is a silly way to look at any situation.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        " Roads?"* This particular item has always bugged me. Why is it that this particular type of construction project is so often considered to be something we need a government for? It's like planting flowers in your garden with an excavator. My theory is the attitude is largely historic. The Romans excelled at road building, but the manpower needed at the time to pull of projects of that scale was only available to governments.
        i_cannot_hack 15y ago
        What do you propose instead? Charges to be collected at every crossing?
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        Why not have a completely independent organization responsible for building roads? They would be a "government" except they wouldn't involve themselves in the slightest in offtopic subjects like defense, healthcare, education, etc. In other words, not a government at all as we commonly think of it. The importance of completely separating the organizational structures should not be underestimated. If you did so, you would no longer have the people in charge of building roads being picked by their stance on Iran or abortion...
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  "What's anti-government interventionist?" Some flavors of crypto-anarchism. For instance, I believe that with the development of certain technologies the approval of the general population will be irrelevant. To be fair though, things that I would consider "anti-government interventionist" are quite rare and almost without exception theoretical.
3pt14159 15y ago
Conservative Republicans are often in favor of government assistance to mothers because they want to encourage families. Conservative Republicans are in favor of wars without end, of a restrictive policy against drugs, of restrictive policies against the internet and are generally against the protection of the environment. They are for indefinite property ownership, even if we end up living to be 500 years old. They are against immigration. For the death penalty. For standing armies. For conscription in times of war. For a strong national government. For copyrighting a number. Against free use of encryption. For clandestine intelligence operations. I'm none of those things. I'm a geolibertarian. The math part of it was the resolution in the supply demand curve when government intervention increases the burdens on commerce, not whether or not the government should provide services to new mothers.
- poppysan 15y ago
  I didn't want to assume you were a republican, I just noticed that your views are skewed closer to the conservative right. Sorry for the confusion.

jbooth 15y ago

Yeah, pro-government interventionist is a pretty hilarious phrasing. Let's talk in comical absolutes, that's guaranteed to generate insightful discussion. What's anti-government interventionist? You don't believe in having police to intervene if you're getting your ass beat? Don't believe in courts to intervene in contract disputes? Man, I am so right I can barely stand it.

3pt14159 15y ago
How would you phrase it? Call them liberal? Socialist? Conservative? Populist? Corporatist? It is phrased that way on purpose because most political leanings favor government intervention between individuals where neither party is committing force or fraud.
- jbooth 15y ago
  I'd talk in specifics instead of loaded terms and comical straw-men. In the linked article, I'd have a problem with the length of that maternity leave, 3 years seems excessive. I generally think the US system of "you can be fired for anything besides discrimination" is the right system for knowledge-worker jobs. I've got a lot less of a problem with the idea of taxes in general, since stuff costs money, and am unabashedly in favor of government-provided healthcare on a dollars and cents basis: Every other developed nation delivers healthcare more cheaply than the US's system, no matter how messed up their national healthcare system is. I'd much prefer paying X additional dollars in taxes if the alternative is 2X additional dollars in healthcare premiums. EDIT: Sigh, apparently my support for a shorter maternity leave term than 3 years angered an anti-government-interventionist.
  - jbooth 15y ago
    I'm going to actually add on to this and zoom out a bit and explain why "pro/anti government intervention" is a silly distinction. You already conceded that government intervention is necessary in the form of a police force and a tort system. Let me throw a few more at you: * Roads? * Should it be legal to build a giant transmitter to jam my competitor radio station's signal? No? Ok, you're in favor of the FCC in some form). * National defense? * Regulations prohibiting me from selling a bunch of rat poison labelled as "Tylenol"? If you're in favor of that regulation, then welcome to the FDA in some form. * Public schools and/or a voucher system to pay for private schooling? It turns out that if we look at preceding items in terms of a sheer "NO GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION" dividing line, you're probably in favor of government intervention in all of them. It's just a question of quibbling over the details. That's why I think "pro government intervention" is a silly way to look at any situation.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      " Roads?"* This particular item has always bugged me. Why is it that this particular type of construction project is so often considered to be something we need a government for? It's like planting flowers in your garden with an excavator. My theory is the attitude is largely historic. The Romans excelled at road building, but the manpower needed at the time to pull of projects of that scale was only available to governments.
      - i_cannot_hack 15y ago
        What do you propose instead? Charges to be collected at every crossing?
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        Why not have a completely independent organization responsible for building roads? They would be a "government" except they wouldn't involve themselves in the slightest in offtopic subjects like defense, healthcare, education, etc. In other words, not a government at all as we commonly think of it. The importance of completely separating the organizational structures should not be underestimated. If you did so, you would no longer have the people in charge of building roads being picked by their stance on Iran or abortion...
burgerbrain 15y ago
"What's anti-government interventionist?" Some flavors of crypto-anarchism. For instance, I believe that with the development of certain technologies the approval of the general population will be irrelevant. To be fair though, things that I would consider "anti-government interventionist" are quite rare and almost without exception theoretical.

3pt14159 15y ago

Conservative Republicans are often in favor of government assistance to mothers because they want to encourage families. Conservative Republicans are in favor of wars without end, of a restrictive policy against drugs, of restrictive policies against the internet and are generally against the protection of the environment. They are for indefinite property ownership, even if we end up living to be 500 years old. They are against immigration. For the death penalty. For standing armies. For conscription in times of war. For a strong national government. For copyrighting a number. Against free use of encryption. For clandestine intelligence operations. I'm none of those things. I'm a geolibertarian. The math part of it was the resolution in the supply demand curve when government intervention increases the burdens on commerce, not whether or not the government should provide services to new mothers.

poppysan 15y ago
I didn't want to assume you were a republican, I just noticed that your views are skewed closer to the conservative right. Sorry for the confusion.