6 ms·

Unease and woe are the two feelings I'm left with after my quick layman reading of the article. Think I am most concerned with the reproductive implications, w

Unease and woe are the two feelings I'm left with after my quick layman reading of the article. Think I am most concerned with the reproductive implications, which seem under researched. Coupled with the unrelated decline in sperm count the past decade... I'm hoping my ruminations are just me catastrophizing. Can anyone more medically and scientifically literate provide some context to temper my doom and gloom?

Alex3917 4y ago
> Can anyone more medically and scientifically literate provide some context to temper my doom and gloom? Most of these issues stem back to endothelium damage. And the good news is that, in addition to taking all the vaccines you're eligible to get, there are a bunch of other things you can do to strengthen and protect your endothelium, e.g. doing HIIT and taking ACE inhibitors. The one risk we (afaik) don't really know how to mitigate is the risk of developing an autoimmune disorder, but this can happen after any viral illness and isn't necessarily a COVID-specific risk. And in terms of reducing the risk of neurological issues, Palmitoylethanolamide seems to a least be much safer than NSAIDs, albeit expensive and still somewhat experimental.
- alchemist1e9 4y ago
  Except for me and many others long covid symptoms got worse after vaccination. Additionally new research is uncovering serious and significant risks for the vaccine with fairly marginal protection benefits.
  - dontknowwhyihn 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - toofy 4y ago
      > but you’re still not allowed to say that. you literally just said it.
      - tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
        His post is currently greyed out (downvoted), so that may not be the best evidence against his claim...
        toofy 4y ago
        so maybe it would be more appropriate to say, “other people disagree with this” rather than playing some strange kind of victim with “they won’t allow me to speak!” we’re allowed to disagree.
    - squidsoup 4y ago
      Incorrect, people contracted long covid before vaccines were available.
    - JakeAl 4y ago
      Not entirely. There's some of that yes, but the reality is regardless of the source of the spike protein when it gets into tissues it causes damage and that damage can be long term. It's all about what the protein is binding to or what tissues it gets in and how the body's immune system responds to that. It's the immune system responding that is doing the most damage and the lingering effects from that.
  - lossolo 4y ago
    > Additionally new research is uncovering serious and significant risks for the vaccine with fairly marginal protection benefits. Could you provide a link to that research ?
    - alchemist1e9 4y ago
      https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.061025 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.0...
      - rybosworld 4y ago
        > new research is uncovering serious and significant risks for the vaccine The frequency of the reaction mentioned in this article is around 2 in 100,000 people. The frequency of death from covid is somewhere in the range of 1000-2000 in 100,000 people. I'll take the vaccine odds. > with fairly marginal protection benefits Your source says nothing about protection benefits being marginal. In fact, one of the author's of this research said: "What the results don’t do, she stressed, is change the fact that the data strongly support getting vaccinated against COVID-19. “Clearly, developing postvaccine myocarditis is much more rare than developing any of the complications of infection with SARS-CoV-2,” she noted." https://www.tctmd.com/news/free-spike-protein-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-implicated-myocarditis https://www.tctmd.com/news/free-spike-protein-mrna-covid-19-...
        alchemist1e9 4y ago
        [flagged]
        kuhewa 4y ago
        > Repeated vaccination is likely not going to be a scientifically justified strategy. It is kinda of amazing to me sometimes just how selectively people can parse an evidencebase
        4y ago
  - Choco31415 4y ago
    I suffered severe depression after getting the J&J vaccine - it wasn't even an mRNA vaccine. It became significantly harder to code and my brain felt like it had been dragged across concrete. Later it'd be stinging and I was dry heaving. Not fun. I hate to ask - but what sort of research is available so far?
  - Alex3917 4y ago
    > Except for me and many others long covid symptoms got worse after vaccination. Sure, because the MRNA spike protein appears to be rough on the endothelium even in healthy individuals, so it's easy to see why this could be problematic for people who already have vascular damage. But there are a lot of other long covid symptoms that folks have reported improving after getting vaccinated, e.g. loss of smell.
  - rtepopbe 4y ago
    I assume this is collecting some downvotes because it's unclear if the second sentence is supposed to apply specifically to the long covid population or the general population. Based on the submitted paper, if it is intended to apply specifically to the long covid population, then it seems to be a reasonable comment. It did mention post-long-covid vaccinations seemed to be more harmful than helpful - something like ~15% found their long covid symptoms improved afterwards while ~20% had their symptoms worsen. If that second sentence was intended to apply to the general population, then it's neither supported nor contradicted by the submitted paper. I don't believe it addressed risks outside of those already suffering from long covid. While it did address protection against long covid, it didn't come to a particular conclusion on the matter. It mentioned that studies on this aren't in general agreement yet, and pointed out a number of potential reasons for this, such as varying and potentially incomplete standards for discriminating between both long covid and control groups, in addition to the basic difficulties involved in keeping up with new strains. As for other research... well that's a whole other thing.
    - alchemist1e9 4y ago
      To clarify when I was making the comment I was thinking about vaccination and boosters for Covid recovered individuals with lingering symptoms associated with Covid.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
Most likely, some of this can be treated nutritionally and will prove reversible.
oaktrout 4y ago
Covid infection outcomes exist on a continuum from death to harmless. There is also "long-flu", and I'm sure there are persistent responses to other respiratory viruses, so long covid isn't totally novel. If you're scared for your health the best thing you can do is be healthy, eat right, exercise, don't smoke, etc.
- squidsoup 4y ago
  That’s all good advice in general, but it also doesn’t seem to have much bearing on who gets long covid - plenty of elite athletes have contracted long covid.
seydor 4y ago
assisted reproduction exists for many decades and works well

Alex3917 4y ago

> Can anyone more medically and scientifically literate provide some context to temper my doom and gloom? Most of these issues stem back to endothelium damage. And the good news is that, in addition to taking all the vaccines you're eligible to get, there are a bunch of other things you can do to strengthen and protect your endothelium, e.g. doing HIIT and taking ACE inhibitors. The one risk we (afaik) don't really know how to mitigate is the risk of developing an autoimmune disorder, but this can happen after any viral illness and isn't necessarily a COVID-specific risk. And in terms of reducing the risk of neurological issues, Palmitoylethanolamide seems to a least be much safer than NSAIDs, albeit expensive and still somewhat experimental.

alchemist1e9 4y ago
Except for me and many others long covid symptoms got worse after vaccination. Additionally new research is uncovering serious and significant risks for the vaccine with fairly marginal protection benefits.
- dontknowwhyihn 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - toofy 4y ago
    > but you’re still not allowed to say that. you literally just said it.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
      His post is currently greyed out (downvoted), so that may not be the best evidence against his claim...
      - toofy 4y ago
        so maybe it would be more appropriate to say, “other people disagree with this” rather than playing some strange kind of victim with “they won’t allow me to speak!” we’re allowed to disagree.
  - squidsoup 4y ago
    Incorrect, people contracted long covid before vaccines were available.
  - JakeAl 4y ago
    Not entirely. There's some of that yes, but the reality is regardless of the source of the spike protein when it gets into tissues it causes damage and that damage can be long term. It's all about what the protein is binding to or what tissues it gets in and how the body's immune system responds to that. It's the immune system responding that is doing the most damage and the lingering effects from that.
- lossolo 4y ago
  > Additionally new research is uncovering serious and significant risks for the vaccine with fairly marginal protection benefits. Could you provide a link to that research ?
  - alchemist1e9 4y ago
    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.061025 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.0...
    - rybosworld 4y ago
      > new research is uncovering serious and significant risks for the vaccine The frequency of the reaction mentioned in this article is around 2 in 100,000 people. The frequency of death from covid is somewhere in the range of 1000-2000 in 100,000 people. I'll take the vaccine odds. > with fairly marginal protection benefits Your source says nothing about protection benefits being marginal. In fact, one of the author's of this research said: "What the results don’t do, she stressed, is change the fact that the data strongly support getting vaccinated against COVID-19. “Clearly, developing postvaccine myocarditis is much more rare than developing any of the complications of infection with SARS-CoV-2,” she noted." https://www.tctmd.com/news/free-spike-protein-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-implicated-myocarditis https://www.tctmd.com/news/free-spike-protein-mrna-covid-19-...
      - alchemist1e9 4y ago
        [flagged]
        kuhewa 4y ago
        > Repeated vaccination is likely not going to be a scientifically justified strategy. It is kinda of amazing to me sometimes just how selectively people can parse an evidencebase
        4y ago
- Choco31415 4y ago
  I suffered severe depression after getting the J&J vaccine - it wasn't even an mRNA vaccine. It became significantly harder to code and my brain felt like it had been dragged across concrete. Later it'd be stinging and I was dry heaving. Not fun. I hate to ask - but what sort of research is available so far?
- Alex3917 4y ago
  > Except for me and many others long covid symptoms got worse after vaccination. Sure, because the MRNA spike protein appears to be rough on the endothelium even in healthy individuals, so it's easy to see why this could be problematic for people who already have vascular damage. But there are a lot of other long covid symptoms that folks have reported improving after getting vaccinated, e.g. loss of smell.
- rtepopbe 4y ago
  I assume this is collecting some downvotes because it's unclear if the second sentence is supposed to apply specifically to the long covid population or the general population. Based on the submitted paper, if it is intended to apply specifically to the long covid population, then it seems to be a reasonable comment. It did mention post-long-covid vaccinations seemed to be more harmful than helpful - something like ~15% found their long covid symptoms improved afterwards while ~20% had their symptoms worsen. If that second sentence was intended to apply to the general population, then it's neither supported nor contradicted by the submitted paper. I don't believe it addressed risks outside of those already suffering from long covid. While it did address protection against long covid, it didn't come to a particular conclusion on the matter. It mentioned that studies on this aren't in general agreement yet, and pointed out a number of potential reasons for this, such as varying and potentially incomplete standards for discriminating between both long covid and control groups, in addition to the basic difficulties involved in keeping up with new strains. As for other research... well that's a whole other thing.
  - alchemist1e9 4y ago
    To clarify when I was making the comment I was thinking about vaccination and boosters for Covid recovered individuals with lingering symptoms associated with Covid.

DoreenMichele 4y ago

Most likely, some of this can be treated nutritionally and will prove reversible.

oaktrout 4y ago

Covid infection outcomes exist on a continuum from death to harmless. There is also "long-flu", and I'm sure there are persistent responses to other respiratory viruses, so long covid isn't totally novel. If you're scared for your health the best thing you can do is be healthy, eat right, exercise, don't smoke, etc.

squidsoup 4y ago
That’s all good advice in general, but it also doesn’t seem to have much bearing on who gets long covid - plenty of elite athletes have contracted long covid.

seydor 4y ago

assisted reproduction exists for many decades and works well