5 ms·

Here's a question posed recently for which I did not have a good answer, maybe someone here can take a shot at it. If the US has an embargo against Cuba becaus

by syspec 4y ago

Here's a question posed recently for which I did not have a good answer, maybe someone here can take a shot at it. If the US has an embargo against Cuba because it is a communist country. Why does the US trade with China, and up until recently Russia? I gave the whole Nixon tried another approach with China (which also didn't work), but it fell flat as many things show that the US is still very actively pursuing this embargo hurting the Cuban people.

woodruffw 4y ago
> If the US has an embargo against Cuba because it is a communist country. Why doesn't it trade with China, and up until recently Russia? The US's foreign policy (like most foreign policies) is defined by expediency, and doing business with China is definitely more expedient both in the abstract and in a historical context than business with Cuba. (Besides, the US didn't do very much business with Russia when it was communist. Business picked up after Russia ceased to be communist, under a doctrine of rapid economic liberalization that the US encouraged and helped enact.)
lalaland1125 4y ago
It's for two main reasons: - We have a ton of Cuban exiles (very opposed to the regime) who are in a very geographically important location in Florida voting-wise - The cost of an embargo against Cuba is minimal since Cuba doesn't have that much industry of interest
jbandela1 4y ago
There is a very interesting monograph about the geopolitics of the United Sates put out by StratFor. You can find a copy here: https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/163960/The%20Geopolitics%20of%20the%20United%20States.pdf https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/163960/The%20Geopolitics%20of%... Based on this analysis, it turns out that New Orleans is the most strategically located city in North America because it controls the mouth of the Mississippi River. This has been recognized for a long time which is why Thomas Jefferson did the Louisiana Purchase, the British attacked New Orleans at the end of the War of 1812 and why the US wanted Texas so much (to defend New Orleans. It turns out if you look at a map that the island of Cuba can potentially controls the path of any shipments leaving New Orleans and headed to the rest of the world. Thus the US either needs to have a friendly regime in Cuba or if unfriendly, one that is weak enough not to be a threat. There is no such calculus with China and Russia. A strong China or Russia is not a direct threat to the US homeland. So the embargo is more about great power realpolitik and geopolitics more so than about communism.
- kornhole 4y ago
  So I think you and the military think tank are saying that if this little country could become powerful enough, it could attack US ships transiting the Mississippi. Going to war with US by attacking its merchant vessels seems an insane thing to do for even a larger and closer country such as Mexico. I struggle to follow this justification for the sanctions.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
    Yeah, it's preposterous. It's not 1812 and the US has effectively no threats in its hemisphere.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  No accusation of communism is ever about communism.
- danbruc 4y ago
  Thus the US either needs to have a friendly regime in Cuba or if unfriendly, one that is weak enough not to be a threat. I vaguely remember the USA saying something last year about Russia not having any rights to impose its interest on the sovereign Ukraine...
  - simple-thoughts 4y ago
    Calling power hypocritical shows a deep misunderstanding of speech. When someone in power speaks, their purpose is strategic. It is not possible to be hypocritical because the beliefs were never held in the first place.
    - danbruc 4y ago
      This is a misunderstanding of hypocrisy - not believing what you say, does not absolve you from being hypocritical [1][2], it just makes you untrustworthy and maybe a liar in addition. If you were correct, things would be even worse - congratulation USA for consciously having the blood of all Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and civilians on your hands. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_hypocrisy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
avgcorrection 4y ago
Russia has not been Communist in name or practice for decades. What are you talking about?
hulitu 4y ago
> Why does the US trade with China, and up until recently Russia? As long as the profit kerps flowing, i see no issue here. /s
SaintSeiya84 4y ago
the fact that U.S and many governments do immoral businesses with other dictatorships does not justify dealing with dictators. Is bad it does business with china, period. It says nothing about Cuba embargo, which btw does not involves medicine and food.

by syspec 4y ago

woodruffw 4y ago

> If the US has an embargo against Cuba because it is a communist country. Why doesn't it trade with China, and up until recently Russia? The US's foreign policy (like most foreign policies) is defined by expediency, and doing business with China is definitely more expedient both in the abstract and in a historical context than business with Cuba. (Besides, the US didn't do very much business with Russia when it was communist. Business picked up after Russia ceased to be communist, under a doctrine of rapid economic liberalization that the US encouraged and helped enact.)

lalaland1125 4y ago

It's for two main reasons: - We have a ton of Cuban exiles (very opposed to the regime) who are in a very geographically important location in Florida voting-wise - The cost of an embargo against Cuba is minimal since Cuba doesn't have that much industry of interest

jbandela1 4y ago

There is a very interesting monograph about the geopolitics of the United Sates put out by StratFor. You can find a copy here: https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/163960/The%20Geopolitics%20of%20the%20United%20States.pdf https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/163960/The%20Geopolitics%20of%... Based on this analysis, it turns out that New Orleans is the most strategically located city in North America because it controls the mouth of the Mississippi River. This has been recognized for a long time which is why Thomas Jefferson did the Louisiana Purchase, the British attacked New Orleans at the end of the War of 1812 and why the US wanted Texas so much (to defend New Orleans. It turns out if you look at a map that the island of Cuba can potentially controls the path of any shipments leaving New Orleans and headed to the rest of the world. Thus the US either needs to have a friendly regime in Cuba or if unfriendly, one that is weak enough not to be a threat. There is no such calculus with China and Russia. A strong China or Russia is not a direct threat to the US homeland. So the embargo is more about great power realpolitik and geopolitics more so than about communism.

kornhole 4y ago
So I think you and the military think tank are saying that if this little country could become powerful enough, it could attack US ships transiting the Mississippi. Going to war with US by attacking its merchant vessels seems an insane thing to do for even a larger and closer country such as Mexico. I struggle to follow this justification for the sanctions.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  Yeah, it's preposterous. It's not 1812 and the US has effectively no threats in its hemisphere.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
No accusation of communism is ever about communism.
danbruc 4y ago
Thus the US either needs to have a friendly regime in Cuba or if unfriendly, one that is weak enough not to be a threat. I vaguely remember the USA saying something last year about Russia not having any rights to impose its interest on the sovereign Ukraine...
- simple-thoughts 4y ago
  Calling power hypocritical shows a deep misunderstanding of speech. When someone in power speaks, their purpose is strategic. It is not possible to be hypocritical because the beliefs were never held in the first place.
  - danbruc 4y ago
    This is a misunderstanding of hypocrisy - not believing what you say, does not absolve you from being hypocritical [1][2], it just makes you untrustworthy and maybe a liar in addition. If you were correct, things would be even worse - congratulation USA for consciously having the blood of all Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and civilians on your hands. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_hypocrisy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

avgcorrection 4y ago

Russia has not been Communist in name or practice for decades. What are you talking about?

hulitu 4y ago

> Why does the US trade with China, and up until recently Russia? As long as the profit kerps flowing, i see no issue here. /s

SaintSeiya84 4y ago

the fact that U.S and many governments do immoral businesses with other dictatorships does not justify dealing with dictators. Is bad it does business with china, period. It says nothing about Cuba embargo, which btw does not involves medicine and food.