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C is a simpler compiler and language spec but I think where we're disagreeing is on whether or not it's simpler to use. I'm saying it's not simpler to use, not

C is a simpler compiler and language spec but I think where we're disagreeing is on whether or not it's simpler to use. I'm saying it's not simpler to use, not that it's not simpler to make a compiler for it C is not simple to use. It's full of non-obvious gotchas with little to no tooling support to aid with handling the vast complexity that the problem space actually contains. To such an extent that, yes, I think the end result is using C correctly is more complex than using C++ correctly despite the C language spec itself being "simpler" - because that simplicity came by punting all the complexity onto the user.

_gabe_ 4y ago
It seems like we've come full circle. > C is not simple to use. It's full of non-obvious gotchas with little to no tooling support to aid with handling the vast complexity that the problem space actually contains Once again, C++ contains the same non-obvious gotchas plus several additional gotchas as I said initially. C++ can only ever be as simple as C, not simpler since it aims to be mostly a superset of C. Sure string handling and stuff is annoying in C, but you can create libraries for that stuff the same way C++ has. I'm not sure how else to put this. Simplicity does not mean ease of use, and the fact of the matter is C will always be simpler than C++ because C++ aims to be a superset of C.
- ncppigger 4y ago
  [flagged]
- kllrnohj 4y ago
  C++ provides tools that C does not (and cannot with just a library) to aid in managing the complexity of the space. Adding complexity to a language can reduce the complexity in using it. This is the case for C++, Rust, D's betterC, etc... when compared to C. All of them add complexity to the language to reduce the complexity in using it. If you can't understand this, so be it. But the entire computing industry fully disagrees with you here. As an aside, your insistence that C++ is a superset of C is factually wrong regardless. C++ changes a number of C behaviors, it is not a strict superset.

_gabe_ 4y ago

It seems like we've come full circle. > C is not simple to use. It's full of non-obvious gotchas with little to no tooling support to aid with handling the vast complexity that the problem space actually contains Once again, C++ contains the same non-obvious gotchas plus several additional gotchas as I said initially. C++ can only ever be as simple as C, not simpler since it aims to be mostly a superset of C. Sure string handling and stuff is annoying in C, but you can create libraries for that stuff the same way C++ has. I'm not sure how else to put this. Simplicity does not mean ease of use, and the fact of the matter is C will always be simpler than C++ because C++ aims to be a superset of C.

ncppigger 4y ago
[flagged]
kllrnohj 4y ago
C++ provides tools that C does not (and cannot with just a library) to aid in managing the complexity of the space. Adding complexity to a language can reduce the complexity in using it. This is the case for C++, Rust, D's betterC, etc... when compared to C. All of them add complexity to the language to reduce the complexity in using it. If you can't understand this, so be it. But the entire computing industry fully disagrees with you here. As an aside, your insistence that C++ is a superset of C is factually wrong regardless. C++ changes a number of C behaviors, it is not a strict superset.