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Why do you say sortition for decision making would have more people opting out? What's the basis for this? But also, I think you might be underestimating the a
by jerojero 4y ago
Why do you say sortition for decision making would have more people opting out? What's the basis for this?
But also, I think you might be underestimating the amount of people required to get actual representative samples of our populations. If you look at the experiments that have been done in France, Iceland, the EU even in countries in South America; minipublics haven't really had a big problem getting enough people to participate. You might be surprised just at how much people want to be able to have an input in how politics is done in our countries.
It's very different than jury duty in that when you're a juror you're going to be judging someone on their innocence, going through trials is tremendously emotionally taxing. I don't think that's something most people want to do; this is a different beast, I would say.
> I believe a system is typically better if this is the case. Things can be done to bias elected decision makers toward behaving as if they are consequentially subject to the decisions. Term limits is one idea, increasing the number of members of the legislative bodies is another.
We already have term limits, and most bicameral chambers in the world have people with both 4 and 8 (or similar numbers) term limits. Yet the problems that I described are shown in both chambers. In reality, after 4, 6 or 8 years most things have been forgotten. And the real problem doesn't come from big bad decisions that these people make but all the small decisions that benefit them as an oligarchical class over everyone else; these small decisions over the course of decades do add up and we are left in this position we are right now with complete polarization and political classes that are unable to tackle the complexity of the problems that in great part, they've created.
And yes, more people in legislatives bodies could be better; but minipublics can be summoned much more easily and you can have many of them in parallel to discuss specific issues as well which is a design that they've proposed for the canton of Vaud in Switzerland.
In any case, I think the healthiest way to go about things is not to replace our current bodies with minipublics just yet, but instead to incorporate them as a third (or second) chamber. As you've pointed out, this could have the desired effect of making elected officials behave more consequentially. Although I do think citizens assemblies through sortition are superior and should eventually replace elected officials, I'm all for a hybrid model for now; and that's actually kind of what's starting to be explored in Europe. Just look at France's efforts in the past few years as well as the Conference on the future of Europe (CoFE).
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago> "Why do you say sortition for decision making would have more people opting out? What's the basis for this?" People have a life, a career, goals, interests. How many people really want to abandon these to work in a potentially argumentative team for a political purpose? Also, blowback from the public your decision effects. Interesting background. I didn't know to what extent this is being tested.
- jerojero 4y agoI think one of the points in favor of sortition is precisely that, at least most of the designs that I've seen, tend to call for ad-hoc assemblies to discuss particular issues. To participate in these you tend to be paid and they tend to meet say 2 times a month (on the weekends) for 6 or so months. The whole point of the citizens assemblies is to get rid of career politicians. There are many designs out there but I think almost all of them that incorporate permanent assemblies focus much more on the building of a structure rather than the building of the careers of the individuals. That is to say, they incorporate rotation in these bodies that "keeps the blood running" in a way. The point you bring up about people having to leave their careers to become politicians is exactly what these sort of proposals try to salvage. I think right now we are kind of in a trying phase where the main question that's trying to be answered is the following: is it possible for ad-hoc assemblies to achieve similar or higher quality of deliberation as permanent elected bodies? And so far the answer is actually yes. If you're interested, there's actually a lot of info out there but reading stuff that Helene Landemore and Claudia Chwalisz have written is a very good start. I'm not really an expert in this topic but they are!
- anonymouskimmer 4y agoThanks for the information and names. I'm going to look them up and read more. I especially hope that these researchers are trying to involve those who are temperamentally disinclined to participate in social activities, as this is the demographic I feel would be most inclined to drop out of a minipublic.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago