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The Model Y was approaching premium car prices without the premium interior. In 2020, they were hovering at $50k but when the pandemic started they raised the p

by yardie 4y ago

The Model Y was approaching premium car prices without the premium interior. In 2020, they were hovering at $50k but when the pandemic started they raised the price practically every week. If you’ve driven an Audi, BMW, Mercedes you kind of know what to expect and where the luxury price comes from. Except the Model S I never got the impression the 3 and Y were worth that price Tesla was charging. And I think the market made that determination as well. It’s great technology but 60x $1000 car payments is still a big commitment for a lot of people. There just aren’t that many buyers in that class.

BoorishBears 4y ago
In my experience the majority of the Teslas are luxurious noise comes from the fact it's often the first "luxury" car people have owned People who normally drove "boring" cars like Civics and Camrys because they saw cars as a utilitarian purchase swung for a Tesla because it was more of a tech purchase than a car purchase. So a lot of people insist it's the best car they've ever driven, and they're not lying... they just haven't driven many non-utilitarian cars.
- tverbeure 4y ago
  I'm surrounded by middle aged high-tech-earning Bay Area Tesla-owning colleagues who used to drive (or still have as their second household car) BWMs, Audis, Lexus etc. I'm one of them. We didn't buy a Tesla because it was a step up from a Camry, but because Teslas are so much more fun to drive. It's really that simple.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    It can't be quite that simple in general. There have always been really fun cars, even some that were sedans. Maybe the niche Tesla figured out how to exploit was stoplight racers. Enthusiasts have never had trouble finding fun daily drivers.
    - tverbeure 4y ago
      Who knows... My opinion is anecdotal and reductionist, but reducing the argument to "most of those poor saps just don't know any better" isn't any better. And you don't need to be a car enthusiast or stoplight racer to enjoy the feeling of instant torque. People buy Teslas because they're fun to drive, because they believe EVs help the environment, because of the charging network, because of the autopilot (which has been really excellent in my case), because of the promise of FSD (which is something that should never have been released), or because they think Musk is a great buddy. And any combination of those points. I'm sure you'll find some who think the fart app is cool, and, yes, there'll be some who think it's a luxury car.
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    I live in SF, work at a "FAANG adjacent" company so I'm surrounded by the same crowd. The minority of us who had fun to drive cars in the first place are not the ones going with Teslas for the fun driving experience. (if anything I know more who do in spite of the driving experience for practical reasons... I was one of them when I first got here from NYC) I mentioned Civic and Camry because they're common in the entire US, but most BMWs/Audis/Lexuses driven in the Bay Area are similarly utilitarian models. There might be a few more M3/M4s in our parking lot than you'd find in a random one across the country for example, but they're still drowned out by SUVs and sedans with base engines. - Maybe we're talking past each other because I'm assuming "fun to drive" in terms of driving dynamics, where by "fun to drive" you might mean the tech part. That would be more in line with my original point, and I could actually see being common.
- lanstin 4y ago
  Because our mottos are "do more with less," "happiness is what you get divided by what you expect," "leave the world better than you found" (as opppsed to the mottos "enjoy yourself a little," "what, you are too good to have some fun," "what is creation for if not to be a blessing"). Compared to a 90s style Accord, VW Superbug Saturn, 2 Priuses, a Leaf, the Model 3 was indeed the funnest car i have driven, (till i had to stick the transflag on it to annotate the political statement). I did rent a BMW on my last vacation in Europe, and it wasn't just the interior details looking good, it was the silence and the smoothness, like all the parts fit and were damped against vibration, that impressed me. When i look at the shabby model 3 interior, i see soneone that forced into reality a mass produced pure electric vehicle, when the common wisdom was it was impossible, and with the great result of helping of us surviving the carbon burn en route to a truly advanced civilization. Now that the path is showm, others will follow, but kudos. A shame he has now surrounded himself with so many yes men as to force his mind out of the great common reality, but perhaps he has done enough good in the world, it is ok for him to inhabit a world of delusions for a while.
germinalphrase 4y ago
I’m simply shocked by the length of loans people will take on cars. BMW will give you a term of 84 months!? I was stressed at having a 36 month loan as a public school teacher (I did not, of course, spring for the BMW).
- boardwaalk 4y ago
  I’m not sure what the significance of the length of loans is? Surely it’s the overall amount of interest that matters. I probably wouldn’t want to be paying a loan at the point I would want to be trading something in — but even then I keep things more than even 84 months and you can always just pay it off.
  - germinalphrase 4y ago
    I acknowledge it’s psychological, but the significance - to me - is that these long loan terms exaggerate how expensive a vehicle a person can “afford”. I haven’t bought a new car recently, but I would be shocked if salespeople aren’t hyper focused on that long term/low monthly bill when trying to upsell vehicles/trims.

by yardie 4y ago

BoorishBears 4y ago

In my experience the majority of the Teslas are luxurious noise comes from the fact it's often the first "luxury" car people have owned People who normally drove "boring" cars like Civics and Camrys because they saw cars as a utilitarian purchase swung for a Tesla because it was more of a tech purchase than a car purchase. So a lot of people insist it's the best car they've ever driven, and they're not lying... they just haven't driven many non-utilitarian cars.

tverbeure 4y ago
I'm surrounded by middle aged high-tech-earning Bay Area Tesla-owning colleagues who used to drive (or still have as their second household car) BWMs, Audis, Lexus etc. I'm one of them. We didn't buy a Tesla because it was a step up from a Camry, but because Teslas are so much more fun to drive. It's really that simple.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  It can't be quite that simple in general. There have always been really fun cars, even some that were sedans. Maybe the niche Tesla figured out how to exploit was stoplight racers. Enthusiasts have never had trouble finding fun daily drivers.
  - tverbeure 4y ago
    Who knows... My opinion is anecdotal and reductionist, but reducing the argument to "most of those poor saps just don't know any better" isn't any better. And you don't need to be a car enthusiast or stoplight racer to enjoy the feeling of instant torque. People buy Teslas because they're fun to drive, because they believe EVs help the environment, because of the charging network, because of the autopilot (which has been really excellent in my case), because of the promise of FSD (which is something that should never have been released), or because they think Musk is a great buddy. And any combination of those points. I'm sure you'll find some who think the fart app is cool, and, yes, there'll be some who think it's a luxury car.
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  I live in SF, work at a "FAANG adjacent" company so I'm surrounded by the same crowd. The minority of us who had fun to drive cars in the first place are not the ones going with Teslas for the fun driving experience. (if anything I know more who do in spite of the driving experience for practical reasons... I was one of them when I first got here from NYC) I mentioned Civic and Camry because they're common in the entire US, but most BMWs/Audis/Lexuses driven in the Bay Area are similarly utilitarian models. There might be a few more M3/M4s in our parking lot than you'd find in a random one across the country for example, but they're still drowned out by SUVs and sedans with base engines. - Maybe we're talking past each other because I'm assuming "fun to drive" in terms of driving dynamics, where by "fun to drive" you might mean the tech part. That would be more in line with my original point, and I could actually see being common.
lanstin 4y ago
Because our mottos are "do more with less," "happiness is what you get divided by what you expect," "leave the world better than you found" (as opppsed to the mottos "enjoy yourself a little," "what, you are too good to have some fun," "what is creation for if not to be a blessing"). Compared to a 90s style Accord, VW Superbug Saturn, 2 Priuses, a Leaf, the Model 3 was indeed the funnest car i have driven, (till i had to stick the transflag on it to annotate the political statement). I did rent a BMW on my last vacation in Europe, and it wasn't just the interior details looking good, it was the silence and the smoothness, like all the parts fit and were damped against vibration, that impressed me. When i look at the shabby model 3 interior, i see soneone that forced into reality a mass produced pure electric vehicle, when the common wisdom was it was impossible, and with the great result of helping of us surviving the carbon burn en route to a truly advanced civilization. Now that the path is showm, others will follow, but kudos. A shame he has now surrounded himself with so many yes men as to force his mind out of the great common reality, but perhaps he has done enough good in the world, it is ok for him to inhabit a world of delusions for a while.

germinalphrase 4y ago

I’m simply shocked by the length of loans people will take on cars. BMW will give you a term of 84 months!? I was stressed at having a 36 month loan as a public school teacher (I did not, of course, spring for the BMW).

boardwaalk 4y ago
I’m not sure what the significance of the length of loans is? Surely it’s the overall amount of interest that matters. I probably wouldn’t want to be paying a loan at the point I would want to be trading something in — but even then I keep things more than even 84 months and you can always just pay it off.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  I acknowledge it’s psychological, but the significance - to me - is that these long loan terms exaggerate how expensive a vehicle a person can “afford”. I haven’t bought a new car recently, but I would be shocked if salespeople aren’t hyper focused on that long term/low monthly bill when trying to upsell vehicles/trims.