7 ms·

I'm surprised this hasn't been submitted before. It's been around for quite some time now. Regardless of what you think of ESR's personality, politics or hacki

I'm surprised this hasn't been submitted before. It's been around for quite some time now. Regardless of what you think of ESR's personality, politics or hacking skills, I found this to be a pretty good read. There's lots of good things in here that apply - not just to software written for Unix systems - but for software in general (I guess it's not really a coincidence that a lot of the good practices on Unix are good practices in general). Edit: Joel Spolsky's take on it: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Biculturalism.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Biculturalism.html

kiba 15y ago
Regardless of what you think of ESR's personality, politics or hacking skills, I found this to be a pretty good read. If ESR can write a really good software development book, why do some people thinks ESR can't code a damn?
- stargazer83 15y ago
  I haven't found a single mention about him not being a good developer. Do we have any references?
  - mgedmin 15y ago
    Have you ever seen the fetchmail source code?
    - pja 15y ago
      My brain is still trying to recover from that particular experience.
    - geoka9 15y ago
      Why, what's wrong with it?
      - gonzo 15y ago
        http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/faq.html#faq-about-why http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/faq.html#faq-about-why http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=585008+0+archive/2001/freebsd-arch/20010218.freebsd-arch http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=585008+0+archiv... http://www.fetchmail.info/design-notes.html http://www.fetchmail.info/design-notes.html
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - 16s 15y ago
      Didn't he take that over from someone else? Edit: Yes, it was written by a guy named Carl Harris and ESR took it over when Harris no longer wished to maintain it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetchmail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetchmail
  - statictype 15y ago
    Well, there's this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=923775 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=923775 But my point was not so much that he's a bad developer but that his software resume is not as impressive as those he compares himself to.
- statictype 15y ago
  Well, it's not so much that he can't write code (he can) but more that he markets his hacking skills to an extent greater than what his open source software indicates. He compares himself to Stallman and Torvalds without having anything nearly as impressive as an OS kernel, C compiler or debugger. I will say though, that he's good at introspecting on code and articulating points about programs better than most (hence the high quality of the book)
  - philh 15y ago
    > He compares himself to Stallman and Torvalds without having anything nearly as impressive as an OS kernel, C compiler or debugger. Does he compare his hacking abilities to Stallman and Torvalds? My impression is that he considers himself a tribal elder, and compares himself to Stallman and Torvalds in that respect. But that's not quite the same.
    - glhaynes 15y ago
      I think that's a big part of it right there: people tend to resent self-proclaimed tribal leaders.
  - zhemao 15y ago
    I'm pretty sure he has worked on compilers and OS kernels. They just weren't as popular as GCC or Linux. I don't think judging one's programming skill based on the popularity of one's projects is rather fair.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
- tptacek 15y ago
  People who can't build excellent software have written many good books. Writing a good tech book requires deep understanding of a subject. Writing good software takes discipline, creativity, and (interestingly) not necessarily a particularly deep analytical understanding of underlying concepts. People have written truly excellent software on poor CS foundations.

kiba 15y ago

Regardless of what you think of ESR's personality, politics or hacking skills, I found this to be a pretty good read. If ESR can write a really good software development book, why do some people thinks ESR can't code a damn?

stargazer83 15y ago
I haven't found a single mention about him not being a good developer. Do we have any references?
- mgedmin 15y ago
  Have you ever seen the fetchmail source code?
  - pja 15y ago
    My brain is still trying to recover from that particular experience.
  - geoka9 15y ago
    Why, what's wrong with it?
    - gonzo 15y ago
      http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/faq.html#faq-about-why http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/faq.html#faq-about-why http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=585008+0+archive/2001/freebsd-arch/20010218.freebsd-arch http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=585008+0+archiv... http://www.fetchmail.info/design-notes.html http://www.fetchmail.info/design-notes.html
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - 16s 15y ago
    Didn't he take that over from someone else? Edit: Yes, it was written by a guy named Carl Harris and ESR took it over when Harris no longer wished to maintain it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetchmail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetchmail
- statictype 15y ago
  Well, there's this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=923775 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=923775 But my point was not so much that he's a bad developer but that his software resume is not as impressive as those he compares himself to.
statictype 15y ago
Well, it's not so much that he can't write code (he can) but more that he markets his hacking skills to an extent greater than what his open source software indicates. He compares himself to Stallman and Torvalds without having anything nearly as impressive as an OS kernel, C compiler or debugger. I will say though, that he's good at introspecting on code and articulating points about programs better than most (hence the high quality of the book)
- philh 15y ago
  > He compares himself to Stallman and Torvalds without having anything nearly as impressive as an OS kernel, C compiler or debugger. Does he compare his hacking abilities to Stallman and Torvalds? My impression is that he considers himself a tribal elder, and compares himself to Stallman and Torvalds in that respect. But that's not quite the same.
  - glhaynes 15y ago
    I think that's a big part of it right there: people tend to resent self-proclaimed tribal leaders.
- zhemao 15y ago
  I'm pretty sure he has worked on compilers and OS kernels. They just weren't as popular as GCC or Linux. I don't think judging one's programming skill based on the popularity of one's projects is rather fair.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
tptacek 15y ago
People who can't build excellent software have written many good books. Writing a good tech book requires deep understanding of a subject. Writing good software takes discipline, creativity, and (interestingly) not necessarily a particularly deep analytical understanding of underlying concepts. People have written truly excellent software on poor CS foundations.