6 ms·

there are literally no peer reviewed scientific study demonstrating the pathology of "long covid". In fact, there aren't really any knowledge that there is such

there are literally no peer reviewed scientific study demonstrating the pathology of "long covid". In fact, there aren't really any knowledge that there is such as thing as "long covid" in the way we traditionally define diseases

colechristensen 4y ago
Google long covid ncbi for a long list of papers. I don’t know what you mean with your no true Scotsman fallacy, there’s definitely something and quite a lot of research establishing what. Where did you get your information?
- collyw 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    Can you name one biomarker for depression or severe PTSD or bipolar disorder? Do you believe those don't exist either?
    - collyw 4y ago
      The majority of long covid is fake though. It will be suffered by the same hypochondriacs that had gluten intollerance last decade and dust allergies before that. You are are that the definition of long covid is along the lines of "anything that can't be explained that happened after a covid infection" absolute horseshit propagandized by the media. Show me some biomarkers and I'll start paying attention.
      - atombender 4y ago
        How do you know they're hypochondriacs? Are there studies showing long-COVID patients to be hypochondriacs? Or are you a doctor who has examined lots of patients who turn out to be hypochondriacs?
        collyw 4y ago
        Watch the video I linked to, it contains a well designed study that gives good evidence in favor of that hypothesis. You won't though, will you?
        atombender 4y ago
        I watched it and skimmed the paper. I did not see any claim that people are hypochondriacs, nor any evidence for it.
  - Retric 4y ago
    I would rather put my trust in the NIH, CDC etc than a random doctor on YouTube. https://covid19.nih.gov/covid-19-topics/long-covid https://covid19.nih.gov/covid-19-topics/long-covid https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/...
    - collyw 4y ago
      The same people that have a revolving door to big pharma? The same people that told you you couldn't get infected by covid after a vaccine? The same people that told you an unsealed cloth mask would help? Boy are you gullible, you really should start looking into studies and the data rather than the con men that you "trust".
  - cjbgkagh 4y ago
    Max exertion test for post exertional malaise (PEM), Immunoassays, red blood cell plasticity in small capillaries, nano-needle salt stress test, calcium channel dysfunction test, and there are probably a few more that I’m probably forgetting. These test are all highly accurate and can easily distinguish between those who have ME/CFS/LongCovid and those who don’t. Edit: I did forget some; retina capillary test, ACE-2 auto antibodies (though not sure about the accuracy for this one). Then there is also the metabolic assays that are so full of distinctive differences that the issue is determining the important ones.
  - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
    Propaganda for what?
    - collyw 4y ago
      For pretending that covid is something other than a moderately bad flu, in order to push pretty much untested mRNA shots onto the population, the vast majority of whom didn't need it. Is it this month that the clinical trials end? I will be very curious to see what happens then, as the EUA will end, and thus pharmas liability shield is gone. Will the bullshit be forgotten about? Biden just extended the "emergency", so maybe not.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
        > ["Long covid" is just propaganda] in order to push pretty much untested mRNA shots onto the population To what end?
        collyw 4y ago
        For pharma, to get a clinical trial for free. For authoritarian politicians to trial run social credit systems (vaccine based this time around) and tracking systems. Plenty of money to and power to be grabbed by those in positions to benefit from them. For big tech, to force people to stay in their homes and thus on their platforms. For those without any spiritual aspect to their existence, a chance to virtue signal, to force their ideals on everyone else.~~ Have you seen what the WHO are trying to push through? https://jamesroguski.substack.com/p/help-spread-the-word?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2 https://jamesroguski.substack.com/p/help-spread-the-word?utm...
      - tsimionescu 4y ago
        Covid, one of the worse diseases that humanity has ever known, is "a moderately bad flu"? Do you realize that it has killed more people in these two years than TB, malaria, most individual cancers, AIDS, and on and on - and this based only on the officially confirmed cases, and despite absolutely unprecedented prevention measures virtually everywhere in the world? If we look at increased mortality, or if we extrapolate what happened early in China or Italy, it would have probably easily beaten the original AIDS epidemic, perhaps even the Spanish Flu. And to prevent the tiresome "died with Covid, not of it" idiocy, that applies to each and every disease death number. There is no such thing as "dying of a disease" that is separate from "dying with a disease", apart perhaps from cases of violent deaths, such as "shot in the head while infected with Covid" (which are obviously an entirely insignificant minority).
  - sfteus 4y ago
    In addition to the others that have already been listed here, there's recent research pointing to elevated levels of both ANG-1 and P-SEL[1], a combination of elevated cytokines and lowered cortisol levels[2], and changes in mitochondrial proteins from neurons[3]. Biomarkers by nature can be extremely difficult to track down. [1]: https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-022-00548-8 https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-022... [2]: https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230106/researchers-hunt-long-covid-biomarkers https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230106/researchers-hunt-l... [3]: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2022/05/422906/long-covid-blood-markers-are-linked-neuropsychiatric-ills https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2022/05/422906/long-covid-blood-ma...
  - floor2 4y ago
    Bit of an aside, but I genuinely laughed out loud at a youtube link being used as your source. I know it's against the guidelines to comment on quality of HN going downhill, so I won't. But if I could...
    - harvey9 4y ago
      I didn't follow the link above, but some prominent and respected scientists put lectures on YouTube so I don't think the platform is a bad source per se.
    - collyw 4y ago
      It's a summary of a peer reviewed paper from a doctor. Absolutely hilarious.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
      > I know it's against the guidelines to comment on quality of HN going downhill, so I won't. But if I could... You did.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Where did you get your information? I'd suggest just sharing a good paper. Asking somebody where they got their information that something doesn't exist is pointless. You could say the same thing to somebody who doesn't believe unicorns exist; better to just show them a unicorn.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    I did, in suggesting a google search which results in many papers, the question being "you said this doesn't exist, here are many examples, why don't they count according to you?" which is mostly rhetorical because it seems I'm replying to someone whose sources are politicized medical information but I left room for real information if it existed. (perhaps an actual expert has an opinion on the corpus of existing research being inadequate I'm not aware of, I don't think this is true but I'm ready to be wrong)
ck2 4y ago
There are hundreds of papers on Long Covid, many peer reviewed. Someone on reddit keeps track of them all: https://reddit.com/r/LongHaulResearch https://reddit.com/r/LongHaulResearch also: https://reddit.com/r/COVID19/search/?q=pasc https://reddit.com/r/COVID19/search/?q=pasc

colechristensen 4y ago

Google long covid ncbi for a long list of papers. I don’t know what you mean with your no true Scotsman fallacy, there’s definitely something and quite a lot of research establishing what. Where did you get your information?

collyw 4y ago
[flagged]
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  Can you name one biomarker for depression or severe PTSD or bipolar disorder? Do you believe those don't exist either?
  - collyw 4y ago
    The majority of long covid is fake though. It will be suffered by the same hypochondriacs that had gluten intollerance last decade and dust allergies before that. You are are that the definition of long covid is along the lines of "anything that can't be explained that happened after a covid infection" absolute horseshit propagandized by the media. Show me some biomarkers and I'll start paying attention.
    - atombender 4y ago
      How do you know they're hypochondriacs? Are there studies showing long-COVID patients to be hypochondriacs? Or are you a doctor who has examined lots of patients who turn out to be hypochondriacs?
      - collyw 4y ago
        Watch the video I linked to, it contains a well designed study that gives good evidence in favor of that hypothesis. You won't though, will you?
        atombender 4y ago
        I watched it and skimmed the paper. I did not see any claim that people are hypochondriacs, nor any evidence for it.
- Retric 4y ago
  I would rather put my trust in the NIH, CDC etc than a random doctor on YouTube. https://covid19.nih.gov/covid-19-topics/long-covid https://covid19.nih.gov/covid-19-topics/long-covid https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/...
  - collyw 4y ago
    The same people that have a revolving door to big pharma? The same people that told you you couldn't get infected by covid after a vaccine? The same people that told you an unsealed cloth mask would help? Boy are you gullible, you really should start looking into studies and the data rather than the con men that you "trust".
- cjbgkagh 4y ago
  Max exertion test for post exertional malaise (PEM), Immunoassays, red blood cell plasticity in small capillaries, nano-needle salt stress test, calcium channel dysfunction test, and there are probably a few more that I’m probably forgetting. These test are all highly accurate and can easily distinguish between those who have ME/CFS/LongCovid and those who don’t. Edit: I did forget some; retina capillary test, ACE-2 auto antibodies (though not sure about the accuracy for this one). Then there is also the metabolic assays that are so full of distinctive differences that the issue is determining the important ones.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
  Propaganda for what?
  - collyw 4y ago
    For pretending that covid is something other than a moderately bad flu, in order to push pretty much untested mRNA shots onto the population, the vast majority of whom didn't need it. Is it this month that the clinical trials end? I will be very curious to see what happens then, as the EUA will end, and thus pharmas liability shield is gone. Will the bullshit be forgotten about? Biden just extended the "emergency", so maybe not.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
      > ["Long covid" is just propaganda] in order to push pretty much untested mRNA shots onto the population To what end?
      - collyw 4y ago
        For pharma, to get a clinical trial for free. For authoritarian politicians to trial run social credit systems (vaccine based this time around) and tracking systems. Plenty of money to and power to be grabbed by those in positions to benefit from them. For big tech, to force people to stay in their homes and thus on their platforms. For those without any spiritual aspect to their existence, a chance to virtue signal, to force their ideals on everyone else.~~ Have you seen what the WHO are trying to push through? https://jamesroguski.substack.com/p/help-spread-the-word?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2 https://jamesroguski.substack.com/p/help-spread-the-word?utm...
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      Covid, one of the worse diseases that humanity has ever known, is "a moderately bad flu"? Do you realize that it has killed more people in these two years than TB, malaria, most individual cancers, AIDS, and on and on - and this based only on the officially confirmed cases, and despite absolutely unprecedented prevention measures virtually everywhere in the world? If we look at increased mortality, or if we extrapolate what happened early in China or Italy, it would have probably easily beaten the original AIDS epidemic, perhaps even the Spanish Flu. And to prevent the tiresome "died with Covid, not of it" idiocy, that applies to each and every disease death number. There is no such thing as "dying of a disease" that is separate from "dying with a disease", apart perhaps from cases of violent deaths, such as "shot in the head while infected with Covid" (which are obviously an entirely insignificant minority).
- sfteus 4y ago
  In addition to the others that have already been listed here, there's recent research pointing to elevated levels of both ANG-1 and P-SEL[1], a combination of elevated cytokines and lowered cortisol levels[2], and changes in mitochondrial proteins from neurons[3]. Biomarkers by nature can be extremely difficult to track down. [1]: https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-022-00548-8 https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-022... [2]: https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230106/researchers-hunt-long-covid-biomarkers https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230106/researchers-hunt-l... [3]: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2022/05/422906/long-covid-blood-markers-are-linked-neuropsychiatric-ills https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2022/05/422906/long-covid-blood-ma...
- floor2 4y ago
  Bit of an aside, but I genuinely laughed out loud at a youtube link being used as your source. I know it's against the guidelines to comment on quality of HN going downhill, so I won't. But if I could...
  - harvey9 4y ago
    I didn't follow the link above, but some prominent and respected scientists put lectures on YouTube so I don't think the platform is a bad source per se.
  - collyw 4y ago
    It's a summary of a peer reviewed paper from a doctor. Absolutely hilarious.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    > I know it's against the guidelines to comment on quality of HN going downhill, so I won't. But if I could... You did.
pessimizer 4y ago
> Where did you get your information? I'd suggest just sharing a good paper. Asking somebody where they got their information that something doesn't exist is pointless. You could say the same thing to somebody who doesn't believe unicorns exist; better to just show them a unicorn.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  I did, in suggesting a google search which results in many papers, the question being "you said this doesn't exist, here are many examples, why don't they count according to you?" which is mostly rhetorical because it seems I'm replying to someone whose sources are politicized medical information but I left room for real information if it existed. (perhaps an actual expert has an opinion on the corpus of existing research being inadequate I'm not aware of, I don't think this is true but I'm ready to be wrong)

ck2 4y ago

There are hundreds of papers on Long Covid, many peer reviewed. Someone on reddit keeps track of them all: https://reddit.com/r/LongHaulResearch https://reddit.com/r/LongHaulResearch also: https://reddit.com/r/COVID19/search/?q=pasc https://reddit.com/r/COVID19/search/?q=pasc