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An example is GDP: - GDP gains might reflect an overall loss to society, as the previously untracked work (homemaking) was more valuable than the GDP-tracked w

An example is GDP: - GDP gains might reflect an overall loss to society, as the previously untracked work (homemaking) was more valuable than the GDP-tracked work that replaced it… and families are doing substantially worse just to survive - GDP per capita might not reflect that 99% of society is doing worse as we experience de-industrialization and destruction of our communities because paper gains like ownership stakes in foreign companies and hyper inflated real estate “mask” the losses experienced by most people I’m curious what US metrics look like if you exclude the top… 5% over the past 50 years. What has life been like for 19 out of 20 people?

starkd 4y ago
Correct. In the same way a venture capitalist can still be successful if only 1 out of 20 of his ventures succeeds and 19/20 fail.
empyrrhicist 4y ago
Not just an example, but perhaps the classic example of why averages can be misleading. The obvious comparison is median income: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/stagnating-median-incomes-despite-economic-growth-explaining-divergence-27-oecd https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/stagnating-median-incomes-des...
spywaregorilla 4y ago
GDP isn't attributed to specific individuals so you can't really show "GDP per capita excluding the top 5%"
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  I phrased that poorly: I meant things like income or other household metrics, but only for the bottom 95%. Precisely because GDP doesn’t give us that insight.
sokoloff 4y ago
> paper gains like ownership stakes in foreign companies and hyper inflated real estate “mask” the losses experienced by most people Paper gains and real estate holdings/transactions are not part of GDP.
nindalf 4y ago
If you want a book length answer to that question, Factfulness by Hans Rosling might be a good place to start. It shows all the ways that life has actually improved in the last 100 years across the world, for all people. There’s a reason that populations have risen sharply to all time highs during this period. Infant and maternal mortality have reduced, deaths from deadly diseases have reduced through proliferation of antibiotics and vaccines, people don’t die of starvation from famine anymore in most of the world. And you can actually see the effect of all of these things. When people are secure that their children will live to see adulthood, they drop from having 5-6 children to 1-2. Things aren’t perfect, but on that one heartbreaking metric - the % of parents who mourn the loss of a child - the progress is phenomenal. And that’s just one thing. I could give as many examples as you’d like, some of which might resonate more than others. Here are two more. - the existence of the internet, smartphones and software powering those phones. We can stay in touch with nearly anyone we want to. We can find communities of like minded people online. It’s safe to say there are many on HN who fit right in but might not fit in their physical neighbourhoods. Companionship and community are critical to our well being. - conscription is at an all time low. You, reading this, probably will never have to do military service or die for your country. Even many nations that do require service, like Finland, Singapore and South Korea have been at peace for a long, long time. Not dying in wars started by others is fantastic. - we have access to wider variety of foods - both ingredients and cuisines. Variety that previous generations could only have dreamed of. - we’ve never had more or better entertainment options. There are more movies, books, TV shows and video games than ever. Even if you felt they were better in the old days, you can enjoy all the entertainment from the old days on your smartphone for the cost of a cheap subscription. Life isn’t perfect, but it’s a lot better than it used to be. This idea that life sucks because billionaires exist is a sad, small minded philosophy.
- notch656c 4y ago
  I have "1-2" children in part because the costs have skyrocketed and also because the nanny state says I go to jail if my kid say walks alone to the playground, so there is no time to micromanage more than 1 or 2 people to the extent they can't even walk without supervision. If you read about "child abuse stories" where some evil villan allowed the kids to play outside it is almost invariably someone with 3+ children (and usually a single mom) because with that many kids it's impractical and possibly even impossible to follow the every wish and demand of every asshole with a cellphone in their hand and ready to call CPS at the drop of a hat.

starkd 4y ago

Correct. In the same way a venture capitalist can still be successful if only 1 out of 20 of his ventures succeeds and 19/20 fail.

empyrrhicist 4y ago

Not just an example, but perhaps the classic example of why averages can be misleading. The obvious comparison is median income: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/stagnating-median-incomes-despite-economic-growth-explaining-divergence-27-oecd https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/stagnating-median-incomes-des...

spywaregorilla 4y ago

GDP isn't attributed to specific individuals so you can't really show "GDP per capita excluding the top 5%"

zmgsabst 4y ago
I phrased that poorly: I meant things like income or other household metrics, but only for the bottom 95%. Precisely because GDP doesn’t give us that insight.

sokoloff 4y ago

> paper gains like ownership stakes in foreign companies and hyper inflated real estate “mask” the losses experienced by most people Paper gains and real estate holdings/transactions are not part of GDP.

nindalf 4y ago

If you want a book length answer to that question, Factfulness by Hans Rosling might be a good place to start. It shows all the ways that life has actually improved in the last 100 years across the world, for all people. There’s a reason that populations have risen sharply to all time highs during this period. Infant and maternal mortality have reduced, deaths from deadly diseases have reduced through proliferation of antibiotics and vaccines, people don’t die of starvation from famine anymore in most of the world. And you can actually see the effect of all of these things. When people are secure that their children will live to see adulthood, they drop from having 5-6 children to 1-2. Things aren’t perfect, but on that one heartbreaking metric - the % of parents who mourn the loss of a child - the progress is phenomenal. And that’s just one thing. I could give as many examples as you’d like, some of which might resonate more than others. Here are two more. - the existence of the internet, smartphones and software powering those phones. We can stay in touch with nearly anyone we want to. We can find communities of like minded people online. It’s safe to say there are many on HN who fit right in but might not fit in their physical neighbourhoods. Companionship and community are critical to our well being. - conscription is at an all time low. You, reading this, probably will never have to do military service or die for your country. Even many nations that do require service, like Finland, Singapore and South Korea have been at peace for a long, long time. Not dying in wars started by others is fantastic. - we have access to wider variety of foods - both ingredients and cuisines. Variety that previous generations could only have dreamed of. - we’ve never had more or better entertainment options. There are more movies, books, TV shows and video games than ever. Even if you felt they were better in the old days, you can enjoy all the entertainment from the old days on your smartphone for the cost of a cheap subscription. Life isn’t perfect, but it’s a lot better than it used to be. This idea that life sucks because billionaires exist is a sad, small minded philosophy.

notch656c 4y ago
I have "1-2" children in part because the costs have skyrocketed and also because the nanny state says I go to jail if my kid say walks alone to the playground, so there is no time to micromanage more than 1 or 2 people to the extent they can't even walk without supervision. If you read about "child abuse stories" where some evil villan allowed the kids to play outside it is almost invariably someone with 3+ children (and usually a single mom) because with that many kids it's impractical and possibly even impossible to follow the every wish and demand of every asshole with a cellphone in their hand and ready to call CPS at the drop of a hat.