5 ms·

With my hybrid work schedule I’m looking for more portability, and less keys. This isn’t for me, but neat. I also use an ortho layout, but find the whole commu

by ctvo 4y ago

With my hybrid work schedule I’m looking for more portability, and less keys. This isn’t for me, but neat. I also use an ortho layout, but find the whole community trying to justify it as better for you ergonomically to be unconvincing. There’s little data that says ortho has any health benefits over staggered. We have data on the position and alignment of the wrist being the biggest factor, and you can achieve this with either style. > This is the physical layout, so you see QWERTY here. I actually type on Colemak though! How do you know if someone uses an alternative key layout? They’ll tell you.

squeegee_scream 4y ago
If you're looking for portability with ergonomics I've been very interested in following Ben Vallack's advice in this video https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM, which is to take a small keyboard like the gergoplex[0] and strap it to your thighs with a giant rubber band. You may also be interested in https://southpawdesign.net/collections/all https://southpawdesign.net/collections/all as they have a few small, ergonomic keyboards. [0]: https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex-heavy https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex-heavy
- 83 4y ago
  I've been looking for a gergoplex but gboards.ca has been down for a long time. If you read the later blog posts on web.archive it's a sad situation, I doubt it'll be back online.
rgoulter 4y ago
> There’s little data that says ortho has any health benefits over staggered. Sure. But the standard row-stagger is asymmetrical; the way a hand types with the left hand is not mirrored by the right hand. I'd be very surprised if that was as ergonomic as a symmetrical layout.
- 323 4y ago
  > But the standard row-stagger is asymmetrical; the way a hand types with the left hand is not mirrored by the right hand. How is it asymmetrical? Unless you consider the right hand typing on the numpad/cursor keys.
  - the_gastropod 4y ago
    On a QWERTY keyboard, think about the letters "I" and "E", which the middle fingers on your right and left hands respectively would hit. Both require your middle finger to reach up and slightly left. It's not a mirrored movement—both skew left. The stagger breaks symmetry of any non-home row finger movements.
    - 323 4y ago
      I think I see it, it seems to me that my finger naturally wants to hit in between "E" and "R", but it hits exactly on top of "I". So ortho fixes this, but could it then introduce problems for other pairs? It seems hard to believe that there is a layout which is 100% better for all combinations. Regarding symmetry, our hands are already asymmetrical due to handiness (left-handed, right-handed), and the brain naturally adapts, and there is also the risk of Hawthorne effect if you A/B test ortho/staggered. Some real studies on layouts would really be useful.
      - gigaflop 4y ago
        Ortholinear can be interpreted as 0 stagger, but still takes time to adjust to. However, when I was using ortho at work and ANSI at home, it didn't take much effort for me to alternate. Ortho layouts are also most often used on compact boards, and the Preonic (5x12 grid, '50%' form factor) is probably the most 'plug and use' friendly ortho I've come across.
  - rgoulter 4y ago
    Consider the index-finger columns: On the LHS, the index-finger RFV. The finger rests on the homing key F, with R to the left. On the RHS, the index-finger column is UJM. The finger rests on the homing key F, with U also to the left of F. I'd consider (say) a Katana keyboard to have a symmetrical row-stagger.
gigaflop 4y ago
When I worked in an office, one of my favorite boards to bring to/from was a Tokyo60. 60% HHKB-ish layout, split backspace, ctrl-instead-of-caps, and a classy aluminum case. If you're curious enough to get into designing your own, there are much simpler guides than the OP here, if you know what you want to accomplish.
jurassic 4y ago
I have no problem admitting my interest in ortho layouts is mostly an aesthetic preference. At home where I can spread out I'm quite content with my Ergodox. But for travel, I find my 2x2u Preonic quite comfy... all the keys you need, none that you don't, with only a minimimum of layers needed.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> How do you know if someone uses an alternative key layout? They’ll tell you. It is a post about a keyboard; if you don't want to hear about keyboard related topics, maybe consider reading different posts.
- bool3max 4y ago
  Pipe down, it's just a joke.
Bedon292 4y ago
Yeah, a split keyboard and traveling back and forth is not so fun. When I was in the office full time it just stayed there, since 95% of my typing was done there. Now I am home the vast majority of the time, and it stays home. I just have a 60% keyboard I use for travel, not my favorite but it gets the job done and travels easy.
ilyt 4y ago
I just bought cheap mechanical keyboard and left it at work
- Symbiote 4y ago
  I bought an expensive mechanical keyboard and left it at work. (My current job would have paid for it, but it's from before that.) I type at work far more than at home.

by ctvo 4y ago

squeegee_scream 4y ago

If you're looking for portability with ergonomics I've been very interested in following Ben Vallack's advice in this video https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM, which is to take a small keyboard like the gergoplex[0] and strap it to your thighs with a giant rubber band. You may also be interested in https://southpawdesign.net/collections/all https://southpawdesign.net/collections/all as they have a few small, ergonomic keyboards. [0]: https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex-heavy https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex-heavy

83 4y ago
I've been looking for a gergoplex but gboards.ca has been down for a long time. If you read the later blog posts on web.archive it's a sad situation, I doubt it'll be back online.

rgoulter 4y ago

> There’s little data that says ortho has any health benefits over staggered. Sure. But the standard row-stagger is asymmetrical; the way a hand types with the left hand is not mirrored by the right hand. I'd be very surprised if that was as ergonomic as a symmetrical layout.

323 4y ago
> But the standard row-stagger is asymmetrical; the way a hand types with the left hand is not mirrored by the right hand. How is it asymmetrical? Unless you consider the right hand typing on the numpad/cursor keys.
- the_gastropod 4y ago
  On a QWERTY keyboard, think about the letters "I" and "E", which the middle fingers on your right and left hands respectively would hit. Both require your middle finger to reach up and slightly left. It's not a mirrored movement—both skew left. The stagger breaks symmetry of any non-home row finger movements.
  - 323 4y ago
    I think I see it, it seems to me that my finger naturally wants to hit in between "E" and "R", but it hits exactly on top of "I". So ortho fixes this, but could it then introduce problems for other pairs? It seems hard to believe that there is a layout which is 100% better for all combinations. Regarding symmetry, our hands are already asymmetrical due to handiness (left-handed, right-handed), and the brain naturally adapts, and there is also the risk of Hawthorne effect if you A/B test ortho/staggered. Some real studies on layouts would really be useful.
    - gigaflop 4y ago
      Ortholinear can be interpreted as 0 stagger, but still takes time to adjust to. However, when I was using ortho at work and ANSI at home, it didn't take much effort for me to alternate. Ortho layouts are also most often used on compact boards, and the Preonic (5x12 grid, '50%' form factor) is probably the most 'plug and use' friendly ortho I've come across.
- rgoulter 4y ago
  Consider the index-finger columns: On the LHS, the index-finger RFV. The finger rests on the homing key F, with R to the left. On the RHS, the index-finger column is UJM. The finger rests on the homing key F, with U also to the left of F. I'd consider (say) a Katana keyboard to have a symmetrical row-stagger.

gigaflop 4y ago

When I worked in an office, one of my favorite boards to bring to/from was a Tokyo60. 60% HHKB-ish layout, split backspace, ctrl-instead-of-caps, and a classy aluminum case. If you're curious enough to get into designing your own, there are much simpler guides than the OP here, if you know what you want to accomplish.

jurassic 4y ago

I have no problem admitting my interest in ortho layouts is mostly an aesthetic preference. At home where I can spread out I'm quite content with my Ergodox. But for travel, I find my 2x2u Preonic quite comfy... all the keys you need, none that you don't, with only a minimimum of layers needed.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

> How do you know if someone uses an alternative key layout? They’ll tell you. It is a post about a keyboard; if you don't want to hear about keyboard related topics, maybe consider reading different posts.

bool3max 4y ago
Pipe down, it's just a joke.

Bedon292 4y ago

Yeah, a split keyboard and traveling back and forth is not so fun. When I was in the office full time it just stayed there, since 95% of my typing was done there. Now I am home the vast majority of the time, and it stays home. I just have a 60% keyboard I use for travel, not my favorite but it gets the job done and travels easy.

ilyt 4y ago

I just bought cheap mechanical keyboard and left it at work

Symbiote 4y ago
I bought an expensive mechanical keyboard and left it at work. (My current job would have paid for it, but it's from before that.) I type at work far more than at home.