3 ms·

This. I'm sorry you're "confused". Some times I get confused with morals and legals don't align, but that's not even the case here.

danbruc 4y ago
Let me just accept that they actually did something illegal, fine, they are not only morally wrong but also legally. And now? Do we make them pay a huge fine and climate change is averted? This seems pure distraction to me. Make some unpopular but impactful policy decisions that actually help to improve the situation instead of pointing fingers and changing nothing.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > Do we make them pay a huge fine and climate change is averted? We should make them pay a huge fine even if the damage they did can't be reversed. Perhaps especially if.
  - danbruc 4y ago
    How much green house gases did Exxon actually release? They produced a lot of oil and gas which comes with some emissions, but you know who actually released the majority of green house gases, you and me. And the industry, but even them really only on our behalves because we wanted them to make stuff for us. So should we not better fine ourselves?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > How much green house gases did Exxon actually release? Plenty, and to Godwin a little, Hitler didn't personally kill any Jews. > you know who actually released the majority of green house gases, you and me And Exxon deliberately took steps to reduce the amount of useful information available to make those decisions.
      - danbruc 4y ago
        I am not saying Exxon did not do bad things, but truth is, consumers are the ones that drove the demand. Even if you make Exxon shut down today, nothing will change, someone will come and fill the gap if the consumer behavior does not change.
- warinukraine 4y ago
  Holding someone accountable as per the law seems like a distraction to you? Ok, I guess you don't agree with one of the fundamental organizing principles of our society then. Lets just agree to disagree and you can go live in a cave.
  - danbruc 4y ago
    You are missing my point. I am not saying you should not hold them accountable, I am saying we have a more important problem. We should focus on minimizing the fallout of climate change instead of getting us distracted with a blame game and figuring out the appropriate punishments.
    - warinukraine 4y ago
      > I am not saying you should not hold them accountable You did imply exactly that. > Do we make them pay a huge fine and climate change is averted? This seems pure distraction to me. If holding them accountable is a distraction, that implies we shouldn't be doing it. So yeah, you did kind of say it. I don't really care about fines. I think the people in charge at that time should be investigated, their internal communication, coordination, and fraud should be exposed, and then they should be put in jail for fraud, if they're still alive. You call this a distraction. I call it making a point.

danbruc 4y ago

Let me just accept that they actually did something illegal, fine, they are not only morally wrong but also legally. And now? Do we make them pay a huge fine and climate change is averted? This seems pure distraction to me. Make some unpopular but impactful policy decisions that actually help to improve the situation instead of pointing fingers and changing nothing.

ceejayoz 4y ago
> Do we make them pay a huge fine and climate change is averted? We should make them pay a huge fine even if the damage they did can't be reversed. Perhaps especially if.
- danbruc 4y ago
  How much green house gases did Exxon actually release? They produced a lot of oil and gas which comes with some emissions, but you know who actually released the majority of green house gases, you and me. And the industry, but even them really only on our behalves because we wanted them to make stuff for us. So should we not better fine ourselves?
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > How much green house gases did Exxon actually release? Plenty, and to Godwin a little, Hitler didn't personally kill any Jews. > you know who actually released the majority of green house gases, you and me And Exxon deliberately took steps to reduce the amount of useful information available to make those decisions.
    - danbruc 4y ago
      I am not saying Exxon did not do bad things, but truth is, consumers are the ones that drove the demand. Even if you make Exxon shut down today, nothing will change, someone will come and fill the gap if the consumer behavior does not change.
warinukraine 4y ago
Holding someone accountable as per the law seems like a distraction to you? Ok, I guess you don't agree with one of the fundamental organizing principles of our society then. Lets just agree to disagree and you can go live in a cave.
- danbruc 4y ago
  You are missing my point. I am not saying you should not hold them accountable, I am saying we have a more important problem. We should focus on minimizing the fallout of climate change instead of getting us distracted with a blame game and figuring out the appropriate punishments.
  - warinukraine 4y ago
    > I am not saying you should not hold them accountable You did imply exactly that. > Do we make them pay a huge fine and climate change is averted? This seems pure distraction to me. If holding them accountable is a distraction, that implies we shouldn't be doing it. So yeah, you did kind of say it. I don't really care about fines. I think the people in charge at that time should be investigated, their internal communication, coordination, and fraud should be exposed, and then they should be put in jail for fraud, if they're still alive. You call this a distraction. I call it making a point.